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Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:56 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

rubenski wrote:
Nice build!

Maybe a dumb question,

Why do you have a triggerwheel setup AND a cam sensor?

Cant you use the cam sensor to tell the ecu the engine position? Why is a triggerwheel needed then?


In my setup, the cam sensor just gives a pulse per revolution, which gives the ECU a hint at what phase the engine is in. The crank sensor is giving the actual angle. Between the two sensors, the ECU figures out which cylinder is firing.

You can run without a cam sensor, and you go to semi-sequential. I ran this for a while, and frankly can't tell a difference in performance.

I've seen setups of guys modifying a 009 and putting a small trigger wheel inside of it and then you don't need the crank sensor, but I didn't bother doing that.
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rubenski
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Okay,

So you cant go full efi with only the cam sync? It that the one from the dub shop?
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

rubenski wrote:
Okay,

So you cant go full efi with only the cam sync? It that the one from the dub shop?


correct. I believe CB's cam sensor is the same concept as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Cam sync is useful when you want to tune each cylinder. Timing and fuel adjustment can be made per hole. Just gotta have a crazy sensor array in place to capture the data.
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

rubenski wrote:
Okay,

So you cant go full efi with only the cam sync? It that the one from the dub shop?


As Chip says, you can run four or five O2 sensors and then tune each cylinder for optimum efficiency and/or power if you included the cam sensor. It tells the ECU when #1 cylinder is there.

For basic batch fire EFI you only need a crank trigger.

If you are starting out it is best to keep it simple. You can always add on later if you want or if you get all the extras installed in the ECU you can activate them whenever you want to.

In order to do sequential fuel and spark you would need 4 coils and drivers along with 4 injector drivers plus the extra wiring.
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vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Dauz wrote:
Locked/limited... same diff

Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
(Now with Water/Alcohol Injection)
Upgraded to MS-2 Extra direct fire wasted spark

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

theDrew wrote:
It lives!

Went through the break-in, drove it around the block. YES!

Got one oil drip to sort out, but now I gotta get the fuel maps in order.

I gotta futz with a few things, re adjust the valves etc, but hey, it works!


Link


Nice job Drew!!!

Now get it tuned and start boosting it!!!!

How much boost are you planning??

I can't remember if you have WI or anything but if you have no IAT cooling ability make sure you listen carefully for detonation at anything after 8-10 lbs boost depending on your ambient intake temps.

My engine is much more tolerant of high boost in the cool spring and fall than in the summer heat.
With your turbo down low like that you do have room for a Water/Air barrel intercooler.
It's all in the packaging.......ask me how I know...... Rolling Eyes Laughing

I'm still driving mine a couple days a week if the weather holds but my days are numbered since the heavy rains are coming.

It's almost time to start thinking about winter upgrades...... Wink
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vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Dauz wrote:
Locked/limited... same diff

Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
(Now with Water/Alcohol Injection)
Upgraded to MS-2 Extra direct fire wasted spark

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

clonebug wrote:

Nice job Drew!!!

Now get it tuned and start boosting it!!!!

How much boost are you planning??

I can't remember if you have WI or anything but if you have no IAT cooling ability make sure you listen carefully for detonation at anything after 8-10 lbs boost depending on your ambient intake temps.

My engine is much more tolerant of high boost in the cool spring and fall than in the summer heat.
With your turbo down low like that you do have room for a Water/Air barrel intercooler.
It's all in the packaging.......ask me how I know...... Rolling Eyes Laughing

I'm still driving mine a couple days a week if the weather holds but my days are numbered since the heavy rains are coming.

It's almost time to start thinking about winter upgrades...... Wink


Thanks! I'm stoked.

I have a 7psi spring in the waste gate right now, I'll start there. I can't wait to wind the thing up!

I don't have any temperature control yet, I'm not sure what I'll do -- maybe I'll just do water/meth injection, or I could do the water/air intercooler if I get motivated.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Chip B. wrote:
Cam sync is useful when you want to tune each cylinder. Timing and fuel adjustment can be made per hole. Just gotta have a crazy sensor array in place to capture the data.


ha aint that the truth. I've been eyeing the AEM 30-2340 for my o2 sensor array. I'll spring for that at some point.
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

theDrew wrote:
clonebug wrote:

Nice job Drew!!!

Now get it tuned and start boosting it!!!!

How much boost are you planning??

I can't remember if you have WI or anything but if you have no IAT cooling ability make sure you listen carefully for detonation at anything after 8-10 lbs boost depending on your ambient intake temps.

My engine is much more tolerant of high boost in the cool spring and fall than in the summer heat.
With your turbo down low like that you do have room for a Water/Air barrel intercooler.
It's all in the packaging.......ask me how I know...... Rolling Eyes Laughing


I'm still driving mine a couple days a week if the weather holds but my days are numbered since the heavy rains are coming.

It's almost time to start thinking about winter upgrades...... Wink


Thanks! I'm stoked.

I have a 7psi spring in the waste gate right now, I'll start there. I can't wait to wind the thing up!

I don't have any temperature control yet, I'm not sure what I'll do -- maybe I'll just do water/meth injection, or I could do the water/air intercooler if I get motivated.


When you do a log just log your IAT'S to see how much your intake temps go up at 7 lbs boost.
W/I works good for me especially in the spring and fall.
In the summer heat I see about 150-170 degrees. In the cool fall I can stay down to 130-135 degrees at 3.0 gph flow at 22-24 lbs boost.
My homemade W/I setup is in my build page somewhere if you want to see it.
I plan on upgrading the pump to a Devils's Own 300 psi pump this winter.
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vwracerdave wrote:

Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see.


Dauz wrote:
Locked/limited... same diff

Paul.H wrote:
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month



My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
(Now with Water/Alcohol Injection)
Upgraded to MS-2 Extra direct fire wasted spark

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936
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Tremelune
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

theDrew wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What are those at the top right? I've been looking for a clean power distribution block with fused relays for a while.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Tremelune wrote:

What are those at the top right? I've been looking for a clean power distribution block with fused relays for a while.


Those are from Leash Electronics. makes wiring relays so easy and clean clean
http://www.leashelectronics.com/
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Mavelotta
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Heck yes, it's running!!! Cool

Just in time for the rain....
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Mavelotta wrote:
Heck yes, it's running!!! Cool

Just in time for the rain....


I know right! Torture is staring at it all winter long.
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theDrew
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Sooooo....its been a while. I moved, I actually have a shop now which made finishing it much much easier.

I got it drive-able last weekend and have been driving around the last few days under the sun.

This morning I finally got up enough guts to start hammering on it, and oh my lord this thing rips!

I have my fuel maps somewhat roughed out, still working on em -- kind of a never ending process.

Still chasing some oil drips here and there, adjusted the valves again last night, no real issues otherwise!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Few things.

1.) Looks like I was sold a 1bar map sensor advertised as a 3bar -- my MAP readings keep pegging out at 103kPa.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


2.) Trying to balance the sides is proving to be a task. Help my logic here, if one sides EGT is higher than the other, then is that side's throttle plate more open or closed?

so here, 1/2 is considerably higher than 3/4...

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

High EGT = Lean = Open throttle plate. Assuming injector flows have been proven.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

so I've traced some rough idling and varying EGT's to fouled plugs....I think I'm running to cold of plugs (DCPR8E)

I'll get a set one warmer and see if that cleans things up

Other than that, starting to hammer on it getting my fuel maps roughed in. Lots of fun!
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

high EGT is not necessarily lean. 18:1 is cooler than 14:1.

The hotter the closer to stoic.

I would begin tuning with NGK 6s to reduce the possibility of fouling, at least until you get close to zeroed in. NGK 8s aren't going to give you a lot of margin for error.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Thanks for the info John -- I'm more focused on getting all the EGT's to be similar at the moment as a clue to an even burn across the 4.

they seems to like to foul and then it has less of a burn at idle.

I'll grab some 6's and see if i see less variance
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build Reply with quote

Lets see a screen shot of your AFR and spark maps
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