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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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 Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| rubenski wrote: |
Nice build!
Maybe a dumb question,
Why do you have a triggerwheel setup AND a cam sensor?
Cant you use the cam sensor to tell the ecu the engine position? Why is a triggerwheel needed then? |
In my setup, the cam sensor just gives a pulse per revolution, which gives the ECU a hint at what phase the engine is in. The crank sensor is giving the actual angle. Between the two sensors, the ECU figures out which cylinder is firing.
You can run without a cam sensor, and you go to semi-sequential. I ran this for a while, and frankly can't tell a difference in performance.
I've seen setups of guys modifying a 009 and putting a small trigger wheel inside of it and then you don't need the crank sensor, but I didn't bother doing that.
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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rubenski
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2014
Posts: 100
Location: belgium
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Okay,
So you cant go full efi with only the cam sync? It that the one from the dub shop? |
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| rubenski wrote: |
Okay,
So you cant go full efi with only the cam sync? It that the one from the dub shop? |
correct. I believe CB's cam sensor is the same concept as well.
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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Chip 
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Utah
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| Cam sync is useful when you want to tune each cylinder. Timing and fuel adjustment can be made per hole. Just gotta have a crazy sensor array in place to capture the data. |
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clonebug
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4027
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| rubenski wrote: |
Okay,
So you cant go full efi with only the cam sync? It that the one from the dub shop? |
As Chip says, you can run four or five O2 sensors and then tune each cylinder for optimum efficiency and/or power if you included the cam sensor. It tells the ECU when #1 cylinder is there.
For basic batch fire EFI you only need a crank trigger.
If you are starting out it is best to keep it simple. You can always add on later if you want or if you get all the extras installed in the ECU you can activate them whenever you want to.
In order to do sequential fuel and spark you would need 4 coils and drivers along with 4 injector drivers plus the extra wiring.
_________________
| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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clonebug
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4027
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| theDrew wrote: |
It lives!
Went through the break-in, drove it around the block. YES!
Got one oil drip to sort out, but now I gotta get the fuel maps in order.
I gotta futz with a few things, re adjust the valves etc, but hey, it works!
Link
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Nice job Drew!!!
Now get it tuned and start boosting it!!!!
How much boost are you planning??
I can't remember if you have WI or anything but if you have no IAT cooling ability make sure you listen carefully for detonation at anything after 8-10 lbs boost depending on your ambient intake temps.
My engine is much more tolerant of high boost in the cool spring and fall than in the summer heat.
With your turbo down low like that you do have room for a Water/Air barrel intercooler.
It's all in the packaging.......ask me how I know......  
I'm still driving mine a couple days a week if the weather holds but my days are numbered since the heavy rains are coming.
It's almost time to start thinking about winter upgrades...... 
_________________
| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| clonebug wrote: |
Nice job Drew!!!
Now get it tuned and start boosting it!!!!
How much boost are you planning??
I can't remember if you have WI or anything but if you have no IAT cooling ability make sure you listen carefully for detonation at anything after 8-10 lbs boost depending on your ambient intake temps.
My engine is much more tolerant of high boost in the cool spring and fall than in the summer heat.
With your turbo down low like that you do have room for a Water/Air barrel intercooler.
It's all in the packaging.......ask me how I know......
I'm still driving mine a couple days a week if the weather holds but my days are numbered since the heavy rains are coming.
It's almost time to start thinking about winter upgrades...... |
Thanks! I'm stoked.
I have a 7psi spring in the waste gate right now, I'll start there. I can't wait to wind the thing up!
I don't have any temperature control yet, I'm not sure what I'll do -- maybe I'll just do water/meth injection, or I could do the water/air intercooler if I get motivated.
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25 |
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| Chip B. wrote: |
| Cam sync is useful when you want to tune each cylinder. Timing and fuel adjustment can be made per hole. Just gotta have a crazy sensor array in place to capture the data. |
ha aint that the truth. I've been eyeing the AEM 30-2340 for my o2 sensor array. I'll spring for that at some point.
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
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clonebug
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4027
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| theDrew wrote: |
| clonebug wrote: |
Nice job Drew!!!
Now get it tuned and start boosting it!!!!
How much boost are you planning??
I can't remember if you have WI or anything but if you have no IAT cooling ability make sure you listen carefully for detonation at anything after 8-10 lbs boost depending on your ambient intake temps.
My engine is much more tolerant of high boost in the cool spring and fall than in the summer heat.
With your turbo down low like that you do have room for a Water/Air barrel intercooler.
It's all in the packaging.......ask me how I know......
I'm still driving mine a couple days a week if the weather holds but my days are numbered since the heavy rains are coming.
It's almost time to start thinking about winter upgrades...... |
Thanks! I'm stoked.
I have a 7psi spring in the waste gate right now, I'll start there. I can't wait to wind the thing up!
I don't have any temperature control yet, I'm not sure what I'll do -- maybe I'll just do water/meth injection, or I could do the water/air intercooler if I get motivated. |
When you do a log just log your IAT'S to see how much your intake temps go up at 7 lbs boost.
W/I works good for me especially in the spring and fall.
In the summer heat I see about 150-170 degrees. In the cool fall I can stay down to 130-135 degrees at 3.0 gph flow at 22-24 lbs boost.
My homemade W/I setup is in my build page somewhere if you want to see it.
I plan on upgrading the pump to a Devils's Own 300 psi pump this winter.
_________________
| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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Tremelune
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2007
Posts: 28
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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What are those at the top right? I've been looking for a clean power distribution block with fused relays for a while. |
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| Tremelune wrote: |
What are those at the top right? I've been looking for a clean power distribution block with fused relays for a while. |
Those are from Leash Electronics. makes wiring relays so easy and clean clean
http://www.leashelectronics.com/
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
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Mavelotta
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Monroe, Wa.
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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| Mavelotta wrote: |
Heck yes, it's running!!! 
Just in time for the rain.... |
I know right! Torture is staring at it all winter long.
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
1985 Vanagon Campmobile w/ 2005 EJ25
Last edited by theDrew on Tue May 08, 2018 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Sooooo....its been a while. I moved, I actually have a shop now which made finishing it much much easier.
I got it drive-able last weekend and have been driving around the last few days under the sun.
This morning I finally got up enough guts to start hammering on it, and oh my lord this thing rips!
I have my fuel maps somewhat roughed out, still working on em -- kind of a never ending process.
Still chasing some oil drips here and there, adjusted the valves again last night, no real issues otherwise!
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Few things.
1.) Looks like I was sold a 1bar map sensor advertised as a 3bar -- my MAP readings keep pegging out at 103kPa.
2.) Trying to balance the sides is proving to be a task. Help my logic here, if one sides EGT is higher than the other, then is that side's throttle plate more open or closed?
so here, 1/2 is considerably higher than 3/4...
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
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UK Luke 72
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Joined: September 07, 2011
Posts: 2867
Location: Little Britain
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:03 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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so I've traced some rough idling and varying EGT's to fouled plugs....I think I'm running to cold of plugs (DCPR8E)
I'll get a set one warmer and see if that cleans things up
Other than that, starting to hammer on it getting my fuel maps roughed in. Lots of fun!
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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high EGT is not necessarily lean. 18:1 is cooler than 14:1.
The hotter the closer to stoic.
I would begin tuning with NGK 6s to reduce the possibility of fouling, at least until you get close to zeroed in. NGK 8s aren't going to give you a lot of margin for error.
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theDrew
Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2011
Posts: 1155
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Thanks for the info John -- I'm more focused on getting all the EGT's to be similar at the moment as a clue to an even burn across the 4.
they seems to like to foul and then it has less of a burn at idle.
I'll grab some 6's and see if i see less variance
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Turbo 2276 MS3X build http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=673125
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kangaboy
Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2010
Posts: 1063
Location: St. Louis, Mo
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| Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Down the rabbit hole -- 2276 MS3X Turbo build |
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Lets see a screen shot of your AFR and spark maps
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
that fucking thing looks like it drove through a J.C. Whitney catalogue and hit everything on the way out |
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