CB forged 1.3s....I need your take on this...

[Dan Ruddock]

[jpaull]

[mark tucker]

check to see if the tips were machined square to the shaft's. do you have the added top end oiling?(hover mod,lifter bores sloted etc) how much lash? Im not a fan of amsoil, did you hapen to put ant zinc in the oil? have you checked the heat treet your self?(file/scratch test) Ive seen rockers give up like that, usualy lubracation related,heattreet.,domed lash caps,tips not square to the shafts or...or too much lash.I reckon if one end of the rocker shaft is higher(shim or rocker block fliped) it could also do that. I suppose too high could also do it, but I doubt it.(to high may slide the foot more than walking it) kinda hard to say. I had some china knock offs (not cb rockers)start to take a shit that had a few issues stacked all togeather,domed lash cap's,not heatreeted tips and the tips were not square the shafts, they were out up to .018 side to side....thats way fucking off for something about 7/16" wide. after remachining and heat treeting and dfl coating that now have almost 90000 miles. I bought 2 sets, they were both afu.( not cb rockers) it is also possiable that yours were heat treeted too much(too hard/brittle) and may of needed tempering down some. about 6 years back i had a set of cb 1.4 that were all black,nasty forging and the adjusters threw off shards of steel when trying to adjust them....thats too hard. I fully deburred the rockers to remove the flash&flaws,probably should of changed adjusters too but they were on a hyd cam so shouldent of needed much adjusting. They were the first batch of the "NEW REDESIGNED" 1.4 CB ROCKERS. 99% of the cb stuff is better than anyboldy elses, but like everything they dont make it and have to rely on the manufacture to give them what they want and there are quality issues no mater what the item, even tomato sandwitches. I have had other cb rockers that were exelent!! I chalk those 1.4's I used up to first batch blues
keep an eye on your valve train!!! I for got, coil bind as well as valve float will do that too.

[jfats808]

[66brm]

What lash caps did you use? I went through two sets of cb's caps to find eight that were smooth enough and then ended up polishing them a touch on 2000 grit wet and dry with some oil as lube to get them right
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[norris]

I used the lash caps I had been using with the AutoCraft rockers. They were/are very smooth, flat and fit. The CBs weren't and didn't.

[Clatter]

Autocraft sent you new bearings, right?

You re-did all of the rockers with new bearings?

I'd be inclined to use those..

Perhaps the sides of the cages on your original set of bearings were rubbing on something?
Like say a rocker block, or a wonky shim?
It would be prudent to carefully inspect whatever thrust surface the bearings were against,
(at least the bearings that were forund bad).

Maybe whatever was irritating the roller cage has now worn in?
Or perhaps been replaced?

Maybe there were some rollers that were not as good quality, or a bad batch?

Either way,
I'm an optomist, no doubt,
but,
Bet you those Autocraft 1.4s are all ready to give some good loving for a long time..

Not China lovie-lovie long time, dig?
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What’s That Noise?!?

[norris]

Yes, I bought new bearings from Autocraft. I installed those and also "surfaced" the sides of the rockers as they were a little rough where they contact the shims. The actual problem with the old bearings is that the way they were constructed they wore from the inside of the bearing, not from contacting anything on the outside. The new bearings are a bit different in design so they might holdup forever....who knows.

I bought the CB rockers before Autocraft was able to come up with new bearings and I had read so many horror stories on here about the bearing issues that I went ahead with the CBs.

I've already ordered some of the Scat Chromoly 1.25s. Looking forward to giving them a try and as previously mentioned, I'm horrified by the thought of needle bearings in my sump! I'll either sell the Autocrafts or keep them as they were a part of the original "old school" build of this engine.

I'm a neophyte when it comes to the "inner workings" of an aircooled VW engine. People here, especially Jeff, Glenn, Dan, Dave and John C. have helped me learn a tremendous lot about these cars and for that I'm grateful.


This thread is all about me learning as to whether or not I did anything wrong at the time of installation of the CB rockers......I don't want to make the same mistake twice!

[AlteWagen]

What people forget is that Autocraft had two different kind of rockers available back in the day. One that had full oiling to the bearing (drilled and welded on the adjuster side) and a 'dry' rocker that only got splash oiling.

If you have the 'dry' type you can do the mods in this post and drill the small oil jets in the pushrods to spray oil on the rockers to help the bearings live.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578813&highlight=#5578813

Ive got the same dry Autocraft rockers but in 1.25, the bearing cages are in tact but the bearings themselves are completely worn out. If I use them in a future build I will do the oil mods above.

What did Autocraft charge for the replacement bearings?
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[norris]

Should for some reason, I go back with the Autocraft rockers, I'll check deeper into these oiling mods.

AutoCraft charged me $8./bearing. I've since found them cheaper but not by much.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[AlteWagen]

You should do the pushrod oil mods regardless of what rocker you use, any help in oiling on the top end is worth it.

You have the part number of the bearing?

thanks
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[norris]

The Autocraft part number on my invoice is 05055 . They were $10 each from Autocraft. I took the # off of the bearing race and looked them up elsewhere( a bearing shop) and they were like $6. each.

[mark tucker]

you could bush the rockers and then drill for oil... there are also needel bearings with oiling holes in them, I ferget the sufex or weather they make it in that size or the cost they may be.most are not drawn races but hared machined so there more$$$.I would probably drill them and bush. you may also find some adjusters with oiling and use them to add oil via a tiny slot in the threads, also adding a slot on the rocker block top to catch and feed oil to the needels should help, I do that to all mine. the oil is draining off so it might as well be funneled to the place where it does some good. I do not like using serated valve spring shims for rocker shims.. but for this application I would but be sure to back it up with hard shims on the thrust side(rearward side of all rockers..rearward is toward the rear bumper ) adding the grove aiming upward should also help(I would orient the groove up at 1/2 lift . you can also add upward groves on the rocker blocks and the end caps too as well as center spacer if it's stationary. more lube= more life. getter done and go have fun. be sure to check for any interfearance in the lift cycle.min of about 1mm extra lift.

[AlteWagen]

I thought the AC knockoffs used a bushing like you mentioned, I thought they would last longer (depending on material) due to the side loading issue. After the bearing issue on mine I just put them away and thought I would bush later on if I wanted to use them, after I discovered they were not the pro version with the oil passage I said forget it.

Now that I have a nice TIG machine and a drill press I might just drill and weld them up myself. Since I also need several adjusters Ill get some tool steel versions with the oil provision.
_________________
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[Dan Ruddock]

Another problem with the AC’s is the shaft size, they flex with high loads and I have seen broken shafts. Ok for mild apps. Dan

[MConstable]

[AlteWagen]

[mark tucker]

I would rather drill somewhere else than the pushrod.( I drill and add oil slot to my rockers for tip oiling)
Also when using greese/moly lube in appplications like the tip of the rocker. it can also cause the issue you have.....yup, the rocker has little movement and may push the greese/moly out of the wear path and create a seal so the oil can not get in to cool it or lube it.sounds crazy but it;s true. if you even work on a chevy with the ballrockers(stock old chevy stuff and some cheep roller rockers had them) many people were greessing up the balls&socket and running and burning up the balls&rockers. it is a very high pressure area and liquid needs to be used(oil) I use a light mix of moly&oil on mine,moly is fine for the shafts as they are oil pressure feed(not on needels moly can kill them as can teflon fortified oils).

[norris]

Thanks Mark. I'll try the mixture on the pushrods, but would expect the cam lube to be good on the arm/lash cap friction points.....next time.

[norris]

Just to kinda close this thread I'll mention that I installed a set of forged Scat 1.25s. Installation went well and the geometry worked great with the pushrods that I had for the CBs.
I've put nearly 300 miles on the car since installation. I pulled the rockers last night for inspection and the wear was perfect....no pitting at all on the swipes or pushrods.....smooth as silk. I used the Scat caps.
You can draw your own conclusions about the CB 1.3s