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chubby53 Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2005 Posts: 2106 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:10 pm Post subject: Better filter for the sand |
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Hi. I have dual 36 dells. And I have the K&N style with outerwears and UNI two stage foam filters. What would be best?
Thanks. _________________ My build:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=385100 |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5389 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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If your choice is either or, I would go with the two stage foam filters. Although the outerwears help, Cotton/gauze filters are not great in the sand. Swap out the cotton/gauze filters for paper filters, and that will be much better. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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It's a play thing Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2009 Posts: 575 Location: Dayton, Nevada
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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Check out Donaldson or ump.. we use a Donaldson on our off road car here in Nevada. works great and keeps the fine Nevada silt out. _________________ It's not the size of your shop, it's what comes out of it that counts.
I've been playing with my thing ever since I got it... |
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YDBD Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2017 Posts: 890 Location: Bavaria, Germany
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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IMO- a two stage foam/paperfilter works the best for sand.
You might be able to get a foam wrap for each carb to go around the paper element.
Why paper? Sand can be sharp and cut up the nice K&N filters even with Outerwears. A little cheaper to replace.
Why foam? More depth in trapping fine sand dust, it still gets in there...somehow.
Something like these but for dual carbs:
You could also run hoses to a single filter up out of the way. One thing about buggies and baja's with dual carbs the sand is kicked up from the tires right there. Better if it's up out of the way in the center of the car.
My dad also got a Caterpillar diesel two stage filter, can't find the pic, but that was one of the better filters we ever used for the sand. _________________ '56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing" |
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Vanillagurilla Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017 Posts: 1061 Location: California
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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Oiled foam is the best by far. Outerwear literally do nothing. |
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I Ride Sand Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2012 Posts: 567 Location: utah
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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Vanillagurilla wrote: |
Outerwear literally do nothing. |
i strongly disagree, and insist on using outerwear over my foam filters.
the outerwear keeps the bulk of the flying sand from sticking to the outside of the filter. think of it like a splash guard for sand. the less sand on the filter, the less there is to work its way through the foam. they are just meant to keep off the majority of the flying sand from the filters, and they do a damn good job of it. _________________ Just a dirty coyote playing in the desert.
now where'd that dirty badger run off to? |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5389 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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I’m know sand varies a great deal from location to location, but for what it is worth, in my experiance I do have to agree with Vanillagurilla on outerwears not being worth a lot in the sand...at least around here.
Sure they keep the filter from packing up with coarse sand...but it’s not the coarse grans that will get you. The filter does alright at keeping that heavy grit out. It’s the powder of flower like consistency that is sucked through those stupid cotton gauze filters that always seems to end up packing up in fine idle jets, etc.. The outerwears do absolutely nothing to help keep this fine powder out that I frequently see down throats and in jets on carbs with cotton gauze filters.
Just my 0.02 bucks. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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I Ride Sand Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2012 Posts: 567 Location: utah
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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Vanapplebomb wrote: |
Sure they keep the filter from packing up with coarse sand...but it’s not the coarse grans that will get you. The filter does alright at keeping that heavy grit out. It’s the powder of flower like consistency...
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the coarse stuff is what its meant for. that fine floury stuff is not sand, its straight up silt. they are only rated for particles that are .005" and up. you would not catch me dead out in the dunes without them. the course sand does build up on the outside of any type of oiled filters just like the fine stuff does.
when used the way they were meant to be used, they work really well. they are a pre-filter meant to block large particles. they keep big stuff from sticking, and let the filters handle the fine stuff. filters are not perfect, they do let a bit of any contaminate through.
i have had sand work its way through the second stage of a UNI filter with their oil applied properly on a cr250 i had. everything was perfect, filter fully seated and grease used around the base, rubber washer under the wing nut, filter was properly clamped by the basket and all. i was young and broke, so preventative work was the only way i could keep riding. after a week at the dunes in a stock airbox, it was fully plugged, and sand had been pulled through the foam and into the intake. the pulsing vacuum helped move it through. i tore the engine down, cleaned the sand out of the crankcase, and bought an outerwear and a new filter. next time we went, the filter needed to be cleaned but only had fine dust. no sand in the intake, and i was happy.
so yeah, in SAND, outerwears and foam rocks. in SILT, look for something different. _________________ Just a dirty coyote playing in the desert.
now where'd that dirty badger run off to? |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5389 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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Yeah, like I say, depends where you are as sand is a lot different in different places. Even in Michigan. The sand in the Western lower peninsula is a lot different than some areas along Lake Superior in the upper peninsula. A lot of the sand is more heavily laced with super fine red powder up in the UP, which is really good at getting sucked through and clogging stuff up.
The default is to run the cotton/gauze filters because it comes standard in most dual carb kits these days, but they are pretty piss poor in the sand around here...outerwears or no outerwears...doesn’t really matter. Paper is the way to go for sand in my opinion. Really hard to beat the filtering efficiency of a good paper filter. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Vanillagurilla Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017 Posts: 1061 Location: California
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Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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I Ride Sand wrote: |
Vanillagurilla wrote: |
Outerwear literally do nothing. |
i strongly disagree, and insist on using outerwear over my foam filters.
the outerwear keeps the bulk of the flying sand from sticking to the outside of the filter. think of it like a splash guard for sand. the less sand on the filter, the less there is to work its way through the foam. they are just meant to keep off the majority of the flying sand from the filters, and they do a damn good job of it. |
Unless your running dual carbs like I am, big sand particles aren't getting near your filter. I have duals and still dont run outerwears for the fact that I have to clean my filters after everytrip anyways. There for there useless, I even used to run one on my quad but noticed no difference in how dirty the filter was with or without the outerwear and have never pulled a grain of sand out of my filters with or without. Even at glamis. |
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Terryrayw Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2018 Posts: 3 Location: FL
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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I use the filters for the the Lord owes that come with the covers that pull over top of them |
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mr_bill Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006 Posts: 1008 Location: City of Orange, CA
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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On the "OldManx" we use this.........oiled K&N filter inside & UNI Filter-Wrap, oiled outside.......Rarely need to clean K&N, as UNI catches it ALL !!
_________________ see ya' on the trail........
"Mr Bill"
Dos Perros Motorsports
Orange, CA
1972 Class 11x/Stock Bug
'60's era "vintage" Tunnell-Buggy
"...no one here....get's out ALIVE...."
Motor = electric
Engine = internal combustion
www.facebook.com/groups/DosPerrosMotorsports
www.alrchapter132.org
www.DAV.org |
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mr_bill Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006 Posts: 1008 Location: City of Orange, CA
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Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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basically the SAME set-up on the "tunnell-buggy" as on the "OldManx"....oiled K&H inside with oiled UNI filter-wrap on the outside........
_________________ see ya' on the trail........
"Mr Bill"
Dos Perros Motorsports
Orange, CA
1972 Class 11x/Stock Bug
'60's era "vintage" Tunnell-Buggy
"...no one here....get's out ALIVE...."
Motor = electric
Engine = internal combustion
www.facebook.com/groups/DosPerrosMotorsports
www.alrchapter132.org
www.DAV.org |
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joemama Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2006 Posts: 1635 Location: La Crescenta, California
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Better filter for the sand |
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I have used an oiled gauze filter, with a unifilter oiled band over that, and an outerwear over that. I think the outerwear helps. This set up worked well at Glamis, and on the dirt. Also, I think its important to have filter housings that have good, solid surfaces were the filter seals, and use grease to seal. Some of the stamped metal housings arent quite flat, and dont seal as well. I used to run dual 40IDF, and didnt like how they were right down by the tires (here, the outerwear helped). I have since switched to a single center mounted Zenith. |
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