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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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 Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| orwell84 wrote: |
| I've heard it called shipwright's disease. One of the cleats is rusty so you replace it with a nice brass cleat, the deck it's attached to is a little spongey so that gets fixed too but while doing it you find, well you get the idea. I almost bought a small sailboat once until it occurred to me that it would be like a floating bus. |
LMAO 
Gary - if there is anything you need PM me.
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Did you compression test this engine when you did all the work to it way back when Kent? What were the results if you did? If the compression was good, you maybe able to skip re-ringing the pistons. Simply yank the other head off and inspect it carefully. I agree with Kent though in you're throwing the dice if you reuse it without a rebuild.
Not to be Debbie Downer but many folks do a top end on their (tired) engine. This then contributes to a rod knock due to the increased compression. 
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Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2536
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Same thing with bathrooms...started a bathroom refresh and first thing I know, it's down to the studs and the subfloor and I'm renting a chaincutter to get out the old cast iron stinkpipe...my bus weakness is rust,,,it's the gift that keeps on giving.
Good luck getting rolling again. |
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KentABQ
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:43 am Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Did you compression test this engine when you did all the work to it way back when Kent? What were the results if you did? If the compression was good, you maybe able to skip re-ringing the pistons. Simply yank the other head off and inspect it carefully. I agree with Kent though in you're throwing the dice if you reuse it without a rebuild. |
Yes Bill. The last compression check was done last fall, I think. The numbers were in the 120-130 range.
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
         ---williamM |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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If you are not burning oil, and if you don't have a lot of blowby 120-130 is healthy - as long as it was reasonably equal on all cylinders. You are probably a candidate to send the heads (plural) to Adrian and have them rebuilt. Or buy new heads from Len Hoffman. If you put new heads on it, rebuild the whole engine and enjoy it for 100,000 miles. If you just have the heads reworked, enjoy it for 20,000 more miles and plan on a full rebuild then with new heads. That is my opinion. Others may feel differently.
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wcfvw69
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:20 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| If you are not burning oil, and if you don't have a lot of blowby 120-130 is healthy - as long as it was reasonably equal on all cylinders. You are probably a candidate to send the heads (plural) to Adrian and have them rebuilt. Or buy new heads from Len Hoffman. If you put new heads on it, rebuild the whole engine and enjoy it for 100,000 miles. If you just have the heads reworked, enjoy it for 20,000 more miles and plan on a full rebuild then with new heads. That is my opinion. Others may feel differently. |
Kent,
This ^^ is what I was going to say if you came back with good compression numbers.
I wouldn't screw with the pistons/cylinders or rings. Get the heads fixed and run it for 20k miles or more w/luck.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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KentABQ
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| If you are not burning oil, and if you don't have a lot of blowby 120-130 is healthy - as long as it was reasonably equal on all cylinders. You are probably a candidate to send the heads (plural) to Adrian and have them rebuilt. Or buy new heads from Len Hoffman. If you put new heads on it, rebuild the whole engine and enjoy it for 100,000 miles. If you just have the heads reworked, enjoy it for 20,000 more miles and plan on a full rebuild then with new heads. That is my opinion. Others may feel differently. |
New heads would be great. But I saw the price online, and it's not feasible now. So a rebuild is definitely out of the question. I'd have to sell or park her for a couple years. Medical bills are already eating me alive, and it's going to get worse this summer.
It's never burned any oil, just a slight irritating leak I'm planning on fixing while the drivetrain is out. On the journey from PS to GC to Quartzite, I added about a half quart of oil. I try to keep the oil level even with the top line of the dipstick, and it was down about 1/4" the one time I added oil.
So, option two is rebuilding heads...
While I was with WilliamM, he had a 1700 head that was in good condition with new valve guides already installed. And he had valves that had been reground, and springs in good condition. He spent a couple hours showing me how to use a set of Neway valve seat cutters to get the best fit. So I am super confident the replacement head is good to go.
The plan is to remove the bad head and compare the volume of (the hopefully undamaged) #4 to the new head to determine if it's similar. And if it is comparable, to install it and do a compression check all the way around. And learn how to do a leak down test while I was at it. It's my understanding these tests will tell me how good the rings are functioning.
I don't know what is involved when someone rebuilds the heads, but I'm assuming it's similar to what BillM did for me in Quartzite. If the 1/2 head compression and volume is similar to the 3/4 side, what would be the benefit of rebuilding them? (Hope that doesn't sound flippant, as I am seriously asking. I'm still firmly entrenched in the "newbie" category of ACVW ownership.)
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16863
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| KentPS wrote: |
| what would be the benefit of rebuilding them? [i](Hope that doesn't sound flippant, as I am seriously asking. |
having the EXACT same problem on the other head in 800 miles.
I appreciate your passion for the bus, but how many Band-Aids are you willing to pay for?
yea, these will run cobbled together...for how long? who knows. if you factor in all your down time, towing etc....it's getting expensive, huh?
at minimum I would do new heads, and a 100mph hone and re ring. because we know what's next....the cam gear coming loose from the cam, blowing a galley plug, or....or....or.....
I dunno....seems your plan is to put good money after bad.....multiple times. I don't want to see anyone do that, but you know...you can lead a horse to water....
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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KentABQ
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| having the EXACT same problem on the other head in 800 miles. |
Are you saying the other head may also take a dump due to the possible overheating during the climb up to the Grand Canyon?
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2536
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| KentPS wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| having the EXACT same problem on the other head in 800 miles. |
Are you saying the other head may also take a dump due to the possible overheating during the climb up to the Grand Canyon? |
I think it's about the other head being at the same place in its wear cycle and possibly not far behind. Not trying to speak for Skills, but I think that's the general idea. An engine that's wearing out may have 50 trips for ice cream left in it, but probably not too many Grand Canyon climbs. The engine in and outs eat lots of time and energy and they end up not being free either. |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16961
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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I’ve seen this failure before in Mikes 1979. As I said earlier, unless you pull the injector connector, when you drive on a dead cylinder the fuel washes away the oil lubricating those rings which causes excessive wear.
How many miles did you drive with #3 at zero compression?
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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My vote is for matching replacement heads and new pistons and cylinders.
New heads because there was a failure, and the other head has about as many combustion events as the failed head.  Make sure both heads have the same spigot size, valve size, CC volume, and exhaust port shape as your old heads!
New pistons and cylinders because my life is short and $300 is absolutely worth not having to deal with measuring parts with unknown history and milage, machine shops that don't specialize in VWs, and have to explain raygreenwood's very thorough posts to near-retiring machinists who just don't give a damn. The shops that will be able to hone it perfectly, pus the costs of the new rings, plug time to drive to San Diego or Inland Empire to find these machinists all add up… $300 plus an afternoon scrubbing them clean and painting the cylinders black? 
Robbie
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KentABQ
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:49 am Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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She will be put up for sale.
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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calvinater
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2014
Posts: 3328
Location: 802 The Pointless Forrest
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Say it ain’t so. 
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williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Well- at least pull the head off and see what condition the cylinder is in.
Having no history of this engine - it could be a mid miler put together with original heads. So try and ignore all the "could", "Maybes" and "You otta's" and come back with a few facts- With out a micrometer in your hands- its all speculation.
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| KentPS wrote: |
| She will be put up for sale. |
I've been there, and I'm sure a lot of other folks here have too. What happened sucks and is a real set back. I will never tell anyone to take shortcuts, but I do recommend weighing your expected use out of this bus against the work that can or should be done.
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Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
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OB Bus
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2003
Posts: 2537
Location: Ocean Beach in Beautiful BLUE California
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| KentPS wrote: |
| She will be put up for sale. |
I've been there, and I'm sure a lot of other folks here have too. What happened sucks and is a real set back. I will never tell anyone to take shortcuts, but I do recommend weighing your expected use out of this bus against the work that can or should be done. |
Hey Kent - I'm nearing the same point in my life. Sad but reality.
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Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| OB Bus wrote: |
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| KentPS wrote: |
| She will be put up for sale. |
I've been there, and I'm sure a lot of other folks here have too. What happened sucks and is a real set back. I will never tell anyone to take shortcuts, but I do recommend weighing your expected use out of this bus against the work that can or should be done. |
Hey Kent - I'm nearing the same point in my life. Sad but reality. |
Kent - are you selling it because of the cost repairing it, or because you no longer trust it? Not prying just want to be sure that this is what you really want. It will bring more running than needing repairs.
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Brian
Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 8340
Location: Oceanside
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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| KentPS wrote: |
| She will be put up for sale. |
Cool, I could use a bus.
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16961
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Help KentPS get back on the road? |
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Brian you vulture
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Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
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