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Ricksurfin
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2017
Posts: 295
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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Just fixed a problem with a bad coil. Went on a long drive today, and about 45 mins into it car died. Smoke started pouring out of steering column. Jumped in back and disconnected battery right away. Insulation on wire from fuse panel burned away entire length to coil. Ignition;switch frozen where I can’t turn it and key stuck in it.
Now, I need to figure out if new coil grounded out, or if ignition switch went bad to ground.
Any ideas?
Also, have to figure out how to replace ignition switch and replace entire length of wire from fuse block through ignition and back to coil.
Not a good day. Any ideas or links anyone can provide that will help me would be appreciated.
Thanks, Rick[/code] |
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Ricksurfin
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2017
Posts: 295
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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Found the wire going to choke was pinched between carburetor and fan shroud and had worn through the insulation leading to ground.
Now, I need to replace ignition switch and rewire from fuse block to coil.
I can’t figure out how to remove ignition switch, so I started a new thread asking how. I didn’t want to confuse that subject in this thread.
Thanks |
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vwoldbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 1214
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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| Make sure you install an inline fuse to the positive side of the ignition coil . |
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Ricksurfin
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2017
Posts: 295
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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| Any tips on running a new wire from fuse panel to coil? As in best way to route it? Also, I did a search and found conflicting info, but’ if I fuse the new wire, what size fuse should I use? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31378
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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| Ricksurfin wrote: |
| Also, I did a search and found conflicting info, but’ if I fuse the new wire, what size fuse should I use? |
I use a 10-amp fuse on my 2 VWs for this. You can use a blade-type fuse if you like.
| Ricksurfin wrote: |
| Any tips on running a new wire from fuse panel to coil? As in best way to route it? |
I ran the wire on mine out of trunk through existing grommet, under driver running board, up under rear fender, back to engine. I used existing grommets, nooks & crannies, cable ties, etc., and both have been fine like this for many years. I also ran my auge wires this way.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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Place new fuse near the keyswitch for full protection along the wire run. the protection of fuse is only on side of fuse nearest load, and short before fuse will not be fuse protected. thus put fuse in trunk, not engine bay for protection of entire run of wire.
In engine bay use sleeving over all the wires to reduce chance of damage to insulation.
Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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I don't think I had fish tape (wiring tool for running wires in wall) when I ran my gauge wires. I'm pretty sure I got by using a straightened coat hanger.
You will need to use two coat hangers to dig out a larger opening in the C-pillar (death) foam at the left rear of the body. I used two hangers fastened together so they wouldn't come apart and would dig thru the foam as their junction passed thru. This opened a nice path for the new wires. I used the coat hangers to pull a string thru the C-pillar. Then I used a string to pull the new wires. Once the first coat hanger made it thru the foam and I could grab the end with pliers I could work the junction back/forth to dig out the foam. Its not that hard. It doesn't hurt to run extra wires thru the C-pillar for a later upgrade (tach, gauges, etc.)
| bluebus86 wrote: |
| Place new fuse near the keyswitch for full protection along the wire run. the protection of fuse is only on side of fuse nearest load, and short before fuse will not be fuse protected. thus put fuse in trunk, not engine bay for protection of entire run of wire. |
If you place a fuse in the wire from the fuse box to the ignition coil (as suggested by Cusser) a 10A fuse is fine. But if you place the fuse between the ignition switch and the fuse box you will need a much larger fuse as this wire carries the current for powering two or three 8A fuses (possibly a 16A one in later years) as well as the 10A load for the ignition coil, choke, idle cutoff and reverse lights. You will probably want to go with a 20~30A fuse in such a case.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Ricksurfin
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2017
Posts: 295
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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| Does the wire go through the tarboard then the firewall and come out under rear seat? if so, do I attack the foam from the firewall and bore through it to behind rear seat? I'm at work and I'm trying to visualize what needs to be done. |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15985
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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| Ricksurfin wrote: |
| Does the wire go through the tarboard then the firewall and come out under rear seat? if so, do I attack the foam from the firewall and bore through it to behind rear seat? I'm at work and I'm trying to visualize what needs to be done. |
The wires do not pass thru the tar board nor the firewall. These pics will give you an idea of the wire routing and where the foam is located:
In the below pic of the rear seat you can see the exposed left rear quarter panel and the beige harness sheath tucked in the gap between the inner and outer panels. This harness contains all the wires that run into the engine compartment. The harness passes thru the C-pillar.
The red line in the below pic is basically where the harness passes from the rear seat area to the engine compartment. The support area between the rear quarter window and the rear window is the C-pillar.
In the below pic you can see (after cutting away the exterior metal) where the foam is injected to seal any air leaking in/out of the cabin. I think you can see the harness along the lower edge of the exposed panel, or it could just be buried in the foam.
_________________
AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Multi69s
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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Ricksurfin
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2017
Posts: 295
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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| Do you bore through the foam from the rear of the car, or from inside the car? Whihich is the best way to attack it? |
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Ricksurfin
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2017
Posts: 295
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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Well, I did the unwise thing (possibly) this morning just to get the car running so I could get to work as it’s my daily driver. I checked continuity of the original ignition wire, and it was good. So, I cut the ends off and covered the exposed sections of wire on both ends where it left the loom and covered them with heat shrink tubing. The insulation was bubbled up and there were some bare sections of wire showing. I did check the wire prior to doing this that it didn’t go to ground and it didn’t. I also installed a 10 amp fuse between wire and fuse block just in case the wire could go to ground eventually. My figuring is since it’s contained within the loom and is bordered by wires that have their own insulation that even if the insulation on the ignition wire is compromised anywhere along it’s length, that it would be unable to go to ground.
So, that’s where it stands. It’s back running great and hopefully I won’t have any issues for a few days until I can run a new length of wire, as this is just a temporary repair.
Thanks for all the help!!! |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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| Ricksurfin wrote: |
Well, I did the unwise thing (possibly) this morning just to get the car running so I could get to work as it’s my daily driver. I checked continuity of the original ignition wire, and it was good. So, I cut the ends off and covered the exposed sections of wire on both ends where it left the loom and covered them with heat shrink tubing. The insulation was bubbled up and there were some bare sections of wire showing. I did check the wire prior to doing this that it didn’t go to ground and it didn’t. I also installed a 10 amp fuse between wire and fuse block just in case the wire could go to ground eventually. My figuring is since it’s contained within the loom and is bordered by wires that have their own insulation that even if the insulation on the ignition wire is compromised anywhere along it’s length, that it would be unable to go to ground.
So, that’s where it stands. It’s back running great and hopefully I won’t have any issues for a few days until I can run a new length of wire, as this is just a temporary repair.
Thanks for all the help!!! |
Your repair maybe fine may not be. The shorted wire in the loom may have more heat damage than the exposed ends, because the wires in a bundle tend to get hotter for a given load as they are insulated, the individual wires outside the loom are air cooled, can dissipate heat better than that in the loom. Remember shorts to ground are not the only issue, that wire can also short to other wires in the loom. If so you may find the engine cant be turned off when the stop lights are on, or tail lights, or such. like wise you may have a tail light turn on when ever the ignition is on. This will reduce the current available for the coil, and may result in poor spark, poor running. maybe youll get away with it, maybe not.
remember that current ratings for wires are drastically down graded when bundled in a harness or loom, this is because in a harness the wire cant dissipate heat as well in a harness as a single wire in free space.
I hope it is ok, but it may not be.
Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Ricksurfin
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2017
Posts: 295
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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Everything appears to be working fine. Just went through and tested all lights and functions and no issues.
Problem is, if other wires within the loom are compromised, just running a new ignition wire would only solve that part of the puzzle. I do plan on replacing it to at least take that part of the equation out.
I will be driving it to work and back until the weekend though, so if there are issues hopefully they don’t become major ones. Breaking down is one thing, burning the car up is another. Hopefully by having the fuse installed in line it offers the needed protection. |
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Burned ignition wiring and switch |
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Everything may be working fine, but the same thing happened to me a few years ago (generator light wire grounded out and burned all the way through the main wire harness from the regulator up to the dash) and just like your situation everything still worked, but when I checked out the harness I found this: 
As you can see that wire had the insulation completely burned off it, and other wires in the loom were compromised as well.
I ended up replacing the whole thing and glad I did.
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1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
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