Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
The 1641 for my Detroit money pit
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12, 13, 14  Next
Jump to:
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
madmike
Samba Member


Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5291
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
madmike is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:49 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

x2 on that torqueMEister (fikin spell check Rolling Eyes
Anyhow u gonna debut this Buggy at Yipsi? I driving the bus down and doing the swap meet stop by and say Hi Wink ,Madmike
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

I have a torque master, or torque maistro.....or torque multiplier, whatever it's called. I guess I need to see how it's used exactly. I thought I still had to figure out a way for the engine to be secured, but I guess I've got an engine stand that will hold it still, (now that I've modified it) .....So, I reckon once I figure out how to use the torquing tool, I can fasten my flywheel once and for all. I'll look on youtube to see if I can find somebody using one. I really don't have a clue because I've never seen one used before, and I suck at figuring stuff out without directions. I'm a lousy engineer, what can I say? d'oh! You guys have any tips on using one?

I might be going to Ypsilanti next weekend for the show, but I haven't 100 percent committed yet. I might fare better by staying home and finishing up my engine. And naturally, my buggy isn't even close to being ready yet.
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


.....here's a photo of my torque multiplier. I still have no idea how to use this thing. What does the 25 lbs 30 lbs mean? (stamped on it) Plus, I have two gears and no directions. Any help is appreciated, youtube wasn't very beneficial.
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
[email protected]
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
john@aircooled.net is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

those are torque conversion #s. If you want 270 at the big end, use 30 at the small end. That is a 9:1 multiplier.

The 4 hole piece is for axle nuts. You don't use that for flywheels. You have a 6 and 12V small wheel to match with the flywheel you are using.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net

"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Pruneman99
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2012
Posts: 5013
Location: Oceanside
Pruneman99 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

Put the tool on the gland nut, the gear that fits your flywheel through the arm and locked into the flywheel teeth. Use a torque wrench on the end of the gear sticking through the arm.

Hope that makes sense. You can torque a gland nut or rear axle nut down with two fingers. Oh and use a small torque wrench, your target torque value won't be any higher than 30lbs or so. Remember it multiplies the torque by 9X
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

Pretty cool device this torque multiplier. Thanks for filling in for the missing directions. Looks like I won't get my chance to use the new 250 ft. lb. torque wrench that I bought several months ago. At least, not right now, anyways.

Piston ring end gap: I took off 'ALL' the rings except for the oil ring (the bottom one) and put them down into the cylinder about 1/3 of the way down. I could just fit my .016 feeler gauge blade into the gaps, so it looks like I'm okay on the compression rings. I don't know how to remove the oil rings, but I'm pretty sure I don't need to know............

And I still don't know why it got so hard turning my engine over once I installed the pistons and cylinders the last time, but slowly and surely, I'm eliminating all possible causes. (unless of course the problem lies with the oil rings, and if that's the case, this could be a case of deja vu)

I also just got done cleaning the bottoms of all my cylinders. I had used Permatex Ultra Black gasket maker when I installed them the last time, so I had to clean off all the old dried gasket material. Time consuming, but they are all done, ready for installation. I think I'll try to tackle the installation of the P & C's tomorrow, and this time, I'm gonna use a bunch more oil to ease these babies in. Then it's the heads and pushrods next.
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
madmike
Samba Member


Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5291
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
madmike is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 3:23 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

DON'T use oil the rings will take forever to seat Shocked Laughing
Just use WD-40 Wink
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

WD-40 on the rings instead of oil? Why? ....and why is this the first time I've ever heard about the rings taking a long time to seat themselves if I use oil? Hmmm, I'm not sure I'd want to use wd40. Sounds funky.
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Teeroy Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 20, 2003
Posts: 3682
Location: Eastern WA
Teeroy is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

I switched to WD 40 on rings a couple years ago, never a problem, lot less messy than oil too.
_________________
Pres. Rivercity VW Club www.rcvwclub.org
Founder Derr Wheat Panzers (DWP)
ARR #3
www.autosportsnorthwest.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

I ended up searching old threads on the WD40 topic on piston rings, and have concluded that although WD40 may work fine, and be less messy, I'll stick with motor oil. To be more exact, I think I'll lube my cylinders and rings with a light coat of 2 stroke oil. (unless of course I'm talked out of it, but I think it's a pretty safe and sound....... and logical assembly process) I'll also use regular 10W30 wt. oil mixed with assembly lube on the wrist pins and bushings, and a thin coat of regular 10W30 wt. oil on the piston skirts.

I've also read where some guys lightly wet sand the new cylinders, to "KNOCK THE TOOTH OFF" of the hone job, but I'm not gonna go there. (unless of course I'm talked out of it....) They're new pistons and the jugs have been honed. Is there any reason I really need to 'CHANGE' the surface finish after honing? I don't think so. Just a good cleaning, then a light coat of 2 stroke oil on the cylinders to prevent rust and ease in the piston installation step. Should be golden, yes? Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)


Last edited by dennismcd707 on Tue May 22, 2018 8:39 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
[email protected]
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2002
Posts: 12785
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
john@aircooled.net is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

new cylinders MUST BE CLEANED AND OILED PRIOR TO USE. The cylinder walls are embedded with honing stone. This will shorten ring life drastically if you do not remove it.
_________________
It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net

"Like" our Facebook page at
http://www.facebook.com/vwpartsaircoolednet
and get a 5% off code for use on one order for VW Parts ON OUR PARTS STORE WEBSITE, vwparts.aircooled.net
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

More bad news. (or.....another hoop to jump through) I stripped the threads in my crank tightening my gland nut bolt. I was using the torque multiplier tool, and it was getting tight, then it wasn't. What the hell man, did I do something stupid? If I did, somebody tell me. I wanted to torque the flywheel bolt (gland nut) to 400 lbs, which would be 44 foot pounds on my torque wrench. Well, either I never got there, or I did.......and then some. I mean, the torque wrench never 'CLICKED', and it seems to work fine everywhere else.

I've never used this tool before (torque multiplier), so it's making me feel like I did something wrong. Could I have overtightened it somehow? It sure as hell never felt like it. I mean, this is a brand new crank and a brand new flywheel. I even had to ream out the flywheel holes a bit so it would mate with the crank.

So I think if I can't clean up the crank threads (which I don't think I can....safely) I'm pretty much screwed. Time for a new crank. Any suggestions?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

I guess I'll be throwing the crank away, and starting over again. I'll get it right. Expensive and time consuming lessons....plural
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nshaddox
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2005
Posts: 612
Location: Hammatramma, MI
nshaddox is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

Looks like only the last four threads pulled. Maybe you could find a longer gland but to get deeper engagement? What crank was it? Stock or empi crap?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

It was a cast Scat "Volksaver" crank, just under 200 bucks, and I honestly think it's a piece of crap. I'm gonna order another crank, this time I'll throw my money at a forged one. Meanwhile, I've got the other engine to assemble, and as long as I don't lose any, I have all the parts. Rolling Eyes

I'd try to repair it, and use a longer bolt ..... but I feel this area is too important to be screwing around with. A new crank is in order, and since I've had real bad luck with Empi and Scat brands, I thought I'd try one from CB Performance. A forged, counter weighted 69mm chromoly crank for around 200 bucks, plus shipping. Lot of moola, but what am I going to do? Just eat it, I guess.
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
madmike
Samba Member


Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 5291
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
madmike is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 3:27 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

I kept telling a buddy up here about his J.C Whitney cw crank= (junk)
now it's a 'Two piece crank' Shocked Rolling Eyes Laughing
nothing wrong with a good 'welded crank' =German Wink
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nshaddox
Samba Member


Joined: January 18, 2005
Posts: 612
Location: Hammatramma, MI
nshaddox is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

send scat the pic of the pulled threads and see if they want it back to do any diagnosis on? I used a CB 76mm forged crank in the past and had no issues. stock forged german would probably be fine for you too. its just a 1641 after all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
heywebonya
Samba Member


Joined: July 08, 2010
Posts: 823
Location: Portage, MI
heywebonya is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

Is the flywheel flange thicker than standard? The dowels look shorter than normal.

This would result in less threads to engage and therefore failure; although you did use "enraged gorilla" forces at 400 ft/lbs.

-Jeff
_________________
If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dennismcd707
Samba Member


Joined: October 09, 2017
Posts: 513
Location: Burbs of Detroit
dennismcd707 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

I was wearing Gorilla Grip gloves when I chose to torque to 400 lbs. Maybe there's a correlation there. Laughing

Not sure about the flywheel flange or the dowels looking shorter than usual. I only know that it never was a perfect slide fit. The dowels always had to be forced into the holes, and drawn in with the gland nut bolt. (not very precision oriented, this aftermarket stuff)

As far as torquing to 400 foot pounds again, I might be persuaded to drop that number a bit for my next crank/flywheel mating session, but it also should be able to handle it next time. Yes? No?

And I'm sure Scat isn't gonna want to look at my crank. In a perfect world maybe, but why would they take the time? Time is money, and to make money, everybody seems to cut corners. Save time, save money, and put a disclaimer on everything. (You torqued it too tight, Mr. McD.) Don't want to sound like a Gloomy Gus, but ........ quality products in the VW aftermarket world sure seem hard to come by. (and another reason why TheSamba is so important to a lot of us rookies)
_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwracerdave
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15280
Location: Deep in the 405
vwracerdave is offline 

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: The 1641 for my Detroit money pit Reply with quote

The factory torque spec for the gland nut is 253 Ft/Lb and that is with a forged crank. There is no reason to use 400 Ft/Lb. Where do you get the ideal you must tighten the gland nut to 400 Ft/Lb. On your next crank I would suggest you follow the factory torque spec.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12, 13, 14  Next
Jump to:
Page 4 of 14

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.