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wilsong82
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 14
Location: netherlands (amsterdam)
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 Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:43 am Post subject: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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Hi guys,
I have a Euro PGSG juli ‘55. Splitcase R&P 4:40, RGB’s smallnut 1:1,39. 30hp engine.
I wanna upgrade the gears for more speed en comfort, now I wanna keep the height original, so i’m Stuck with RGB’s.
I have a complete 181 AK tranny R&P 3:88 with RGB’s (1:1,26) and a Splitbus H tranny with bignut RGB’s. (Rather keep it smallnut)
I wanna run a 1500cc engine, what are the best options.
•Keep the split case R&P 4:40 and swap the axles with the 181, so RGB 1:1,26 instead of 1:1,39
•181 tranny 3:88 with my original axles and RGB’s (1:1,39)
•181 tranny 3:88 with the 181 axles and RGB’s (1:1,26) (would a 1500 pull this)
•just install the H tunnel case 4:125 with the smallnut 181 axles RGB 1:1,26
PS i’m not sure what ratio 4th gear has in the AK 181 tranny.
Thanks guys |
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:43 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| wilsong82 wrote: |
Hi guys,
I have a Euro PGSG juli ‘55. Splitcase R&P 4:40, RGB’s smallnut 1:1,39. 30hp engine.
I wanna upgrade the gears for more speed en comfort, now I wanna keep the height original, so i’m Stuck with RGB’s.
I have a complete 181 AK tranny R&P 3:88 with RGB’s (1:1,26) and a Splitbus H tranny with bignut RGB’s. (Rather keep it smallnut)
I wanna run a 1500cc engine, what are the best options.
•Keep the split case R&P 4:40 and swap the axles with the 181, so RGB 1:1,26 instead of 1:1,39
•181 tranny 3:88 with my original axles and RGB’s (1:1,39)
•181 tranny 3:88 with the 181 axles and RGB’s (1:1,26) (would a 1500 pull this)
•just install the H tunnel case 4:125 with the smallnut 181 axles RGB 1:1,26
PS i’m not sure what ratio 4th gear has in the AK 181 tranny.
Thanks guys |
Big nut buses did come with 1500cc engines...
I can see how you may not want to have taller gears with a 1500. all depends on what size tires you are going to run.
the original 7.00x14 bias plies that came on the big nut buses are HUGE in diameter. a 185/14 would be quite a bit smaller in diameter. In that case you might like the taller gears.
_________________
regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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wilsong82
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 14
Location: netherlands (amsterdam)
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| I run 6.40x15 tires. |
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wilsong82
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 14
Location: netherlands (amsterdam)
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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zuggbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008
Posts: 3479
Location: Anderson SC
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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I will be watching this thread, as I too am looking to upgrade my running gear in my 56.
I am seriously looking at bug nut tranny with 3.88 and keeping the final gear of .82 which should give me 4.00 at the wheel, and running a 1641.
btw...beautiful bus
_________________
SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69807
Location: Phoenix Metro
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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1963 with 1500 came with taller RGB's and small nut. One year only. Drums, too, BTW.
I would probably try to do what VW did in 1963. That is on the slow side, but at least it will climb hills a tad better.
Are you sure 7.00 -14's are so tall? I thought they were about the same as a 185r-14c.
I've got a near new 7.00-14. guess Ill measure it.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12399
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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With the 15" rims and tall tires and big nut 1.26 boxes and a 1600 and a .82 4th a 4.37 r/p works great. I love that combo in my 61. It is stock early 64 1500 gearing.
Nice PGSG! |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| Clara wrote: |
With the 15" rims and tall tires and big nut 1.26 boxes and a 1600 and a .82 4th a 4.37 r/p works great. I love that combo in my 61. It is stock early 64 1500 gearing.
Nice PGSG! |
How do you define "tall" tires? 6.40? 195r-15?
Also, on a similar subject, did the gearing change at all between 36 and 40 hp buses? 1959-60? I know it did with the introduction of the 1500 engine, in 1963.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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dmuis
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2004
Posts: 381
Location: Sunny Alberta, Wild Rose Country.
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| Alan Brase wrote: |
How do you define "tall" tires? 6.40? 195r-15?
Also, on a similar subject, did the gearing change at all between 36 and 40 hp buses? 1959-60? I know it did with the introduction of the 1500 engine, in 1963.
Al |
Here’s a list I compiled from the ratios listed in the owners manuals available at the time:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/50_67_bus_gear_ratios.php
All stock split bus tires (16”,15”,&14”) were ~26.8 - 27.1” tall. Many buses are run on smaller for a variety of reasons, none of which seem good to me, but that’s only my opinion. |
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Alan Brase
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 4532
Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:15 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| dmuis wrote: |
| Alan Brase wrote: |
How do you define "tall" tires? 6.40? 195r-15?
Al |
Here’s a list I compiled from the ratios listed in the owners manuals available at the time:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/50_67_bus_gear_ratios.php
All stock split bus tires (16”,15”,&14”) were ~26.8 - 27.1” tall. Many buses are run on smaller for a variety of reasons, none of which seem good to me, but that’s only my opinion. |
Wow, I agree with you on that. tire footprint gets bigger with larger diameter tires as well as wider tires. Early buses are pretty limited in wide tires, but why would anyone put on short tires?
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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wilsong82
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 14
Location: netherlands (amsterdam)
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:41 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| zuggbug wrote: |
I will be watching this thread, as I too am looking to upgrade my running gear in my 56.
I am seriously looking at bug nut tranny with 3.88 and keeping the final gear of .82 which should give me 4.00 at the wheel, and running a 1641.
btw...beautiful bus |
Thanks
Are keeping the RGB’s? |
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wilsong82
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 14
Location: netherlands (amsterdam)
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:49 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| Clara wrote: |
With the 15" rims and tall tires and big nut 1.26 boxes and a 1600 and a .82 4th a 4.37 r/p works great. I love that combo in my 61. It is stock early 64 1500 gearing.
Nice PGSG! |
Thanks
Any idea wat RPM you do with let’s say 50mph (82kph) with this setup.
I also think there is no big difference between a 1500 and 1600 and I have good experiences with the 1500 engine. |
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wilsong82
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 14
Location: netherlands (amsterdam)
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:57 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| mandraks wrote: |
| wilsong82 wrote: |
Hi guys,
I have a Euro PGSG juli ‘55. Splitcase R&P 4:40, RGB’s smallnut 1:1,39. 30hp engine.
I wanna upgrade the gears for more speed en comfort, now I wanna keep the height original, so i’m Stuck with RGB’s.
I have a complete 181 AK tranny R&P 3:88 with RGB’s (1:1,26) and a Splitbus H tranny with bignut RGB’s. (Rather keep it smallnut)
I wanna run a 1500cc engine, what are the best options.
•Keep the split case R&P 4:40 and swap the axles with the 181, so RGB 1:1,26 instead of 1:1,39
•181 tranny 3:88 with my original axles and RGB’s (1:1,39)
•181 tranny 3:88 with the 181 axles and RGB’s (1:1,26) (would a 1500 pull this)
•just install the H tunnel case 4:125 with the smallnut 181 axles RGB 1:1,26
PS i’m not sure what ratio 4th gear has in the AK 181 tranny.
Thanks guys |
Big nut buses did come with 1500cc engines...
I can see how you may not want to have taller gears with a 1500. all depends on what size tires you are going to run.
the original 7.00x14 bias plies that came on the big nut buses are HUGE in diameter. a 185/14 would be quite a bit smaller in diameter. In that case you might like the taller gears. |
So maybe need to reconsider the engine, i’m Running 6.40x15 tires 26,77”. |
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wilsong82
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 14
Location: netherlands (amsterdam)
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:47 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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If I would go for the 181 gearbox R&P 3,88, 4th gear 0,82, RGB’s 181 smallnut 1:1,26. I probably end up with a bigger engine, would a single port 1600 do the job.
I don’t wanna drive it like a maniac. I love driving my bus, with R&P 4:40 and RGB’s smallnut 1:1,39, with this setup is not save anymore these days. I want a little bit more Oohmp.
Right now, I drive comfortly 43/45mph on the highway. After that I feel like pushing the engine (30hp).
I recon it will be a big difference between my old 30hp setup compare to ‘63 or ‘64 setup with a 1500cc/1600.
I wanna stay with a single port engine. What would be your opinion with a 1500 SP / 1600 SP and 6.40x15 tires (26,77”)
R&P 4.125 or 4.375 or 3,88
RGB 1:1,26 or 1:1,39
If live in the Netherlands so mountains is not a constant factor.
Cheers W |
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el_safari
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2005
Posts: 375
Location: Nouvelle Aquitaine,France
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:06 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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Hi Wilsong82
There are 2 kinds of 181 RGB's: 1,39(18/25) and 1,26(19/24).
Better to count the tooths...
There are 2 people here on thesamba running 1,26 RGB's small nut but I don't know what type of gearbox. 
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La terre n'est qu'un seul pays |
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sub-hatchtim
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2006
Posts: 2610
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:57 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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Why not use an bolt in irs setup and leave it stock height?
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58' pg/sg silo fridge westy
58 Dove blue singlecab
76 911S |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12399
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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an early 64 1 ton bus (or a 63 1 ton bus) came with
1.26 boxes
15" tall tires
4.375 r/p
.82 4th
1500 engine.
I have used this set up (but with a 1600sp) in a bus, and it works very well. It drives 60-65 mph comfortably. My 61 has this in it, and I find it good to drive, and happy at 55-65mph. It also has enough power to carry 1 ton. And brakes.
Some places the traffic is faster than that, and people drive aggressively, and find it tricky to figure out how to steer around a 60mph vehicle, but whatever.
| Quote: |
| If I would go for the 181 gearbox R&P 3,88, 4th gear 0,82, RGB’s 181 smallnut 1:1,26. I probably end up with a bigger engine, would a single port 1600 do the job. |
It would feel sluggy and underpowered IMO.
There are a few threads on this very subject.
You can also pop a 1600 into your split case tranny bus.
That would give you increased power, and increase top speed. the 36 owners manual gives 48mph top speed at 3300 rpms. The owners manual for a 1500 rates the engine to about 4K IIRC.
So with a 1600 driving 55 is fine with that tranny.
You do know about the nose cone issue, right? a tunnel tranny bolts up different than a splitcase at the nose cone.
There are various adapters people have used (do a search).
It may make the bus noisier.
My 36hp bus does cruise 50mph easily on the flat. It feels added weight a lot more than a 1 ton bus, though. Red line at 80 kph, it is fine there all day. Though a road trip in a 36hp bus is something to plan with extra time to get there. |
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mandraks
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| wilsong82 wrote: |
| mandraks wrote: |
| wilsong82 wrote: |
Hi guys,
I have a Euro PGSG juli ‘55. Splitcase R&P 4:40, RGB’s smallnut 1:1,39. 30hp engine.
I wanna upgrade the gears for more speed en comfort, now I wanna keep the height original, so i’m Stuck with RGB’s.
I have a complete 181 AK tranny R&P 3:88 with RGB’s (1:1,26) and a Splitbus H tranny with bignut RGB’s. (Rather keep it smallnut)
I wanna run a 1500cc engine, what are the best options.
•Keep the split case R&P 4:40 and swap the axles with the 181, so RGB 1:1,26 instead of 1:1,39
•181 tranny 3:88 with my original axles and RGB’s (1:1,39)
•181 tranny 3:88 with the 181 axles and RGB’s (1:1,26) (would a 1500 pull this)
•just install the H tunnel case 4:125 with the smallnut 181 axles RGB 1:1,26
PS i’m not sure what ratio 4th gear has in the AK 181 tranny.
Thanks guys |
Big nut buses did come with 1500cc engines...
I can see how you may not want to have taller gears with a 1500. all depends on what size tires you are going to run.
the original 7.00x14 bias plies that came on the big nut buses are HUGE in diameter. a 185/14 would be quite a bit smaller in diameter. In that case you might like the taller gears. |
So maybe need to reconsider the engine, i’m Running 6.40x15 tires 26,77”. |
i looked up the diameter of the Coker 7.00x14 bias plies. They are bigger than the 6.40x15s
Brand: BF Goodrich
SKU: 51731
GTIN UPC: 00842199104899
Product Size: 700-14
Rim Diameter: 14
Tread Width: 4.50
Section Width (Actual): 7.65
Overall Diameter: 27.02
Max Load Capacity: 1360@32PSI
Recommended Rim Width: 5.00 - 5.50
Tube Type or Tubeless: Tubeless
Holland is flat, so i would not worry too much about the taller gears and taller tires, but you will feel the wind slowing you down.
you also asked about the 1600 single ports. I personally love them.
If you plan to make a trip through germany into Italy, i would go for the shorter gears. especially if you plan to tow the obligatory dutch camping trailer 
_________________
regards
Uli
----------------------------------------
'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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wilsong82
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2009
Posts: 14
Location: netherlands (amsterdam)
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: Re: 181 gearbox into splitbus |
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| Quote: |
I have used this set up (but with a 1600sp) in a bus, and it works very well. It drives 60-65 mph comfortably. My 61 has this in it, and I find it good to drive, and happy at 55-65mph. It also has enough power to carry 1 ton. And brakes.
Some places the traffic is faster than that, and people drive aggressively, and find it tricky to figure out how to steer around a 60mph vehicle, but whatever.
| Quote: |
| If I would go for the 181 gearbox R&P 3,88, 4th gear 0,82, RGB’s 181 smallnut 1:1,26. I probably end up with a bigger engine, would a single port 1600 do the job. |
It would feel sluggy and underpowered IMO.
There are a few threads on this very subject.
You can also pop a 1600 into your split case tranny bus.
That would give you increased power, and increase top speed. the 36 owners manual gives 48mph top speed at 3300 rpms. The owners manual for a 1500 rates the engine to about 4K IIRC.
So with a 1600 driving 55 is fine with that tranny.
You do know about the nose cone issue, right? a tunnel tranny bolts up different than a splitcase at the nose cone.
There are various adapters people have used (do a search).
It may make the bus noisier. |
Thanks for the reply,
I do know that I need to use a adapter or nose cone kit from Rancho. Does anyone have experience with these?
If I would keep my split case 4,40 R&P change RgB’s to 1:1,26, it would only increase the speed with 10mph. Although with a 1500SP / 1600SP would get me much faster to highway speeds than my 30hp or what is left of it.
I think the best option for me would be the H tranny 4,375 with smallnut 1:1,26 RGB’s
Trucks drive often 55-58mph on the highway. So I want drive along these bad boys and don’t see them close on my bumper.
Cheers W |
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