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notbobleclair
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Signal lights Reply with quote

Why do my signal lights work when my headlights are off but when the headlights are on, they don't? 1959 beetle.
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hitest
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Signal lights Reply with quote

Trace the hot lead for your turn signal switch- sound like it might be tied in to the wrong fuse- perhaps in with the headlights? If the headlights are on they draw more amperage and perhaps the smaller draw of the signals simply gets sucked dry. What happens to the brightness of the taillights when the headlights are on?
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Signal lights Reply with quote

I would think the headlamps being on drop the voltage enough to cause the turn signal circuit to not operate because the turn signals have too much voltage drop in its connections, switch, fuse.

clean the fjses or replace them, clean the fuse holder spring clips, retension as needed so they grip the cleaned fuses end tight. remove each pressed on connector, clean it and shine up its mounting spade end and confirm it goes on tight, if loose, try to pinch it to grip tight with pliers. look for corrosion and dirt on every connection even the ground to body points, and the bulb sockets, and connections to the flasher can.

Refer to the wire diagram in the technical section, see tab at top of page.



Often every fuse needs to be cleaned, and spring retensioned once and a while, for the press on connectors, some times simply the act of removing and reinstalling several times will clean the contact area enough, and of course make sure they is tight connectors on switch, fuse panel, flasher can, bulb holders ground to body, etc...


Do this for everything under the hood, But beware some wires are always hot, dont short to ground! highly recommend you remove battery negative wire first to avoid shorts, remove one wire at a time to assure you dont mix them up. also confirm fuses are correct values.

If you have a volt meter you can test the drop across each fuse, each switch, each connector but this test is only valid when the load, ie the light is turned on and working. you want ideally zero volts drop across each connector, although in reality there will always be some. by cleaning and tighten the connections, the drop across each is reduced. you only have six volts to start with, if the switch drops 0.5 volt, the fuse 0.8, the connection from fuse panel to wire 0.3 volt, the light bulb socket connection 0.2 volt, the bulb socket to bulb 0.2 volt then you have a total,of .5 +.8+.3+.2+ .2= 2.0 volts total drop or loss in the system, so the bulb only sees 4 volts rather than 6 volts, not enough to make it glow, or not enough to operate the flash can.
Remember the drops can only be measured when the circuit is on.

Good Luck, Bug On with bright lights!
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notbobleclair
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Signal lights Reply with quote

Thanks I will have a look at both suggestions. I have a burnt out dual filament tail light which I just ordered. Could that cause a break in the circuit to prevent the signal light to come on at the same time?
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Signal lights Reply with quote

notbobleclair wrote:
Thanks I will have a look at both suggestions. I have a burnt out dual filament tail light which I just ordered. Could that cause a break in the circuit to prevent the signal light to come on at the same time?


Generally no. there are two filaments for each left or right as you have front and rear turn signals. If both burn out, the flash can stops working for that side, the dash indicator will I believe stay on rather than flash when this happens when given the flash command for that side. If one filament burns out on a side, the flash can will operate at a higher speed, fast flasher. This is a warning to one that one bulb on that side is dead. So it your flasher starts operating fast that means you have a dead bulb, loose bulb in socket, wire broke etc....

The flash can relies on the bulbs current passing thru the flash can to control how fast it operates, this current is the combined current passing thru both bulbs on a given side. if one bulb is out the current becomes one half of what it should have been, so the flasher operates faster. if both bulbs are out, the flasher stops completely.
You can buy different current bulbs, ie higher wattage bulbs for instance, which will cause a slower flash rate. If you install LED turn bulbs, the flasher will,operate supper fast, or not at all, as the LED bulb draws very very little current. Thus when converting to LED bulbs, you need either run an extra resistor across the bulb to bring the current back up to normal, or buy a LED compatible flash can so that flash rate returns to normal

1...Two stock bulbs working = normal flash rate
2...One dead bulb = higher flash rate
3...Both dead bulbs = no flash at all ( Think of it as the flash rate is so high, the bulb never gets chance to turn on.)
4...High brightness high watt bulbs= slower flash rate.
5...LED bulbs act as almost no bulb at all = super fast flash rate or no flash at all (unless you modify circuit as diasussed above.)


Good luck, Bug On with great working flashers!


PS.....
Note also 61 and earlier Bug share the rear turn signal filament with the stop signal, so the turn signal switch will cancel brake light function when turn signal is commanded on one side. On early cars if one stop light refuses to work, the problem may lie in the turn signal switch!

Note on the dual filament rear bulbs, the stop or turn signal filament is the brighter, ie higher wattage of the two, that is why the dual filament bulbs are keys to be installed only one way, so the correct filament is connected to the correct circuit.

At anyrate it sounds to me you have excessive voltage drops in the turn signal circuit, and turning on the headlamps is enough to drop the entire system to below that needed to run the signals. thus clean up all fuses, connections. it is likely that every circuit has simular poor connections, corrosion, dirt, less than tight connections, it may pay dividends to clean up all the cars circuits, you maybe amazed at how much brighter all the lights become, faster wiper motor, brighter dash lights, dome light etc... The fuse panel or the body grounds and bulb sockets are oft the worse offenders, but any connection can cause problems, even internally in a switch. by using the voltage drop test across a switch you can tell if the switch needs replacement or disassembly and cleaning. often the switch will need rivets drilled out or tabs bent to take it apart.

Use of dielectric grease is recommended on reassembling switches for lubing the moving parts. the grease is also very useful in bulb sockets and on ground connections exposed to weather to prevent corrosion after you clean them. Look for dielectric grease (silicone grease) at the auto parts store.


Bug On Brightly!
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notbobleclair
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Signal lights Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the tips!!!
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