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Convoy
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2011
Posts: 312
Location: San Clemente
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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Looking at different radiator configurations and routing schematics I have yet to see the following setup? Why?
Cross-flow radiator rotated 90 degrees between the rails, while minimizing possible hot and cold spots from front to back. This would move the coolant in a z-path (crossflow) equally distributing the coolant from front to back. Cross flow was specifically designed to utilize the water pump pressure only unlike the down flow which relies on both gravity and WP pressure.
Then utilize the added benefit of the configuration of the outlet and inlet being located on a single side (since its rotated 90 degrees this points the ports to the rear of the bus). The picture posted above, that was linked, is similar though not in a cross-flow configuration. This seems to be a better fit as routing of the outlet would not have to routed between the rails or additional cutting for access. Has this been done? |
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Ride_On
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 385
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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Sorry... did someone say cable shift? How bout an extra gear while we're at it:
Link
Yes, yes... it's a Vanagon and a Syncro at that... but it's pretty damn cool!
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1977 Westfalia 2.0 FI Skills EJ25 w SubaruGears 5sp
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687254
2018 Golf Sportwagen 4MO DSG (Dieselgated 2013 Golf Wagon TDI DSG) |
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tristessa
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 3992
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| Ride_On wrote: |
| Sorry... did someone say cable shift? How bout an extra gear while we're at it: |
Right now I'm happy with the five gears (plus reverse, real five speed) I've got.  |
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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Convoy......do you mean like this guy?
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My '65-Subaru EJ20 Turbo conversion |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
Going flat between the rails isn't my favorite to be honest, but it works well. On a totally slammed bus you *could* cut the shift rod tube and leave the ends...problem is you would need custom bushings made to support the rod.
This would give you another 3/4 to 1" of space I think. Even the slim fans (that actually work...spal, etc) are quite thick. Almost wonder what a good work around would be to get the shift rod out of there all together...cable shift? Then you would have tons of room. Problem is we are trying to shove 10 pounds od shit in a 5 pound bag |
Other than the complication of hose routing, is there any reason a split rad system, with one smaller rad on each OUTSIDE of the main frame rails, would not work? No shift rods to hit, or main heater tube to remove.
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Ride_On
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 385
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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Much more turbulent air behind the wheels perhaps? Likely lower flow than down the middle too. Just guessing...
_________________
1977 Westfalia 2.0 FI Skills EJ25 w SubaruGears 5sp
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687254
2018 Golf Sportwagen 4MO DSG (Dieselgated 2013 Golf Wagon TDI DSG) |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
Other than the complication of hose routing, is there any reason a split rad system, with one smaller rad on each OUTSIDE of the main frame rails, would not work? No shift rods to hit, or main heater tube to remove. |
other than the radiators being mud flaps from tire cast off, and being dam near impossible to put on a lift I suppose it would work, until it didn't 
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3040
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
...
one of the big reasons I don't disclose my setup is twofold. 1 is all the bullshit I got in my build thread, and one member here sent me a scathing p/m about how he was Gods gift to the automotive world and didn't think I had a clue. |
I find this reason difficult to accept. As a general profile of the posts I've seen by you, your skin seems thick enough to let such dirty water roll off your back. However, I recommend doing a build in a blog since it's better than in a forum thread as you can turn off comments or else delete the ones you don't like
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
second reason is I reached out to jake raby for help. at the time, I would have given him 10K and a blowjob for a solution. he declined, and gave me the 1 magic ingredient that makes what I do work. I chose the radiator (which he reached out to me to source for a cooling problem he was having) ...
so, out of respect for him, and I would assume him for me....we keep our mouths shut. and all of my swap clients have agreed to do the same. I am a man of my word and will take what jake told me to the grave |
This sounds more reasonable, as someone keeping trade secrets for the sake of their business. I get it.
It's great that you found a bullet-proof solution -- it certainly helps your business -- but it would actually be helpful if you were able to share with us just as everyone else is openly sharing their experiences with their work, good and bad, just like an open community like TheSamba normally does.
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Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
Other than the complication of hose routing, is there any reason a split rad system, with one smaller rad on each OUTSIDE of the main frame rails, would not work? No shift rods to hit, or main heater tube to remove. |
other than the radiators being mud flaps from tire cast off, and being dam near impossible to put on a lift I suppose it would work, until it didn't |
The mud flap and air flow issues are real (not insurmountable), but the lift points I use are well ahead of and behind the center, where I would picture the rads to be located.
Just a thought. Next time my single cab is on the lift I will sit and ponder. Then I will finish the shift rod bushing replacement.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:48 am Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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And another thought....
Why make the system overly complicated? I mean all the extra plumbing to make 2 radiators work. My deal uses 2 easily sourced hoses to make the connection to the radiator. I suppose it could work, but I like a clean install myself...remember KISS...keep it simple skills
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
Other than the complication of hose routing, is there any reason a split rad system, with one smaller rad on each OUTSIDE of the main frame rails, would not work? No shift rods to hit, or main heater tube to remove. |
southcoastcruiser did it...... http://vwkd.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3939
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My '65-Subaru EJ20 Turbo conversion |
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20278
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| panel wrote: |
| cdennisg wrote: |
Other than the complication of hose routing, is there any reason a split rad system, with one smaller rad on each OUTSIDE of the main frame rails, would not work? No shift rods to hit, or main heater tube to remove. |
southcoastcruiser did it...... http://vwkd.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3939 |
Pics don't show for me, but I am glad to hear that someone did the dual side rads with some success.
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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Thought I'd keep posting in this thread as it seamed the most informative. I've got my new rad installed ( 19 x 27 double pass) and I have 2 x 10" fans on the top and pulling (for now) until someone tells me differently. What I'm looking for is a way to better my set up as in try to box it in for air flow etc.
I can't add a scoop as it's pretty low and I'd just be scooping up everything.
These are pics of the front of the rad looking rear.
Pics for reference:
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22668
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:56 am Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
right....
and I stand by the moderately handy DIY'er can do the swap for 4-6K if they are thrifty.
several ways to go about this for sure, and many have had luck running X,Y and Z radiators.
I think that one in the photo a few pots above is from lopez over on STF. it works well, but I don't like the way he has the radiator act like a scoop. IIRC, it gets mounted on an angle, which is effective BUT makes it way more vulnerable to a direct hit.
one of the big reasons I don't disclose my setup is twofold. 1 is all the bullshit I got in my build thread, and one member here sent me a scathing p/m about how he was Gods gift to the automotive world and didn't think I had a clue.
second reason is I reached out to jake raby for help. at the time, I would have given him 10K and a blowjob for a solution. he declined, and gave me the 1 magic ingredient that makes what I do work. I chose the radiator (which he reached out to me to source for a cooling problem he was having) so we kind of in a fucked up way worked together.
so, out of respect for him, and I would assume him for me....we keep our mouths shut. and all of my swap clients have agreed to do the same. I am a man of my word and will take what jake told me to the grave |
Thanks for saving me the 10k skills.
I don’t get the secrecy though...don’t my YouTube videos of my belly in #vanlife equate to contributing to the community as much as trade secrets that younstumbled upon in a Cracker Jack box?
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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panel
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2001
Posts: 1091
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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vwwestyman
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2539
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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| Was mulling this over for no particular reason....I would put a single radiator between the frame rails and make a scoop for it, wide instead of deep to avoid ground clearance issues, wider at the front of the scoop and more narrow at the rear, radiator toward the rear with an air space above and below it inside the scoop. |
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Mr. Unpopular
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2005
Posts: 3715
Location: Tampa Florida
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Need Your Help- Underbelly Radiator Design |
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My friend now owns my bus which is a 78 Bay westy with a VW ABA. It has a radiator from an 80's Chevy truck between the frame rails with 2 Nissan electric fans under it pulling down. No scoop, no ducting, nothing fancy.
The bus runs at 175 degrees cruising down the road. It would get up to 200 or so sitting at idle for a long time, but raising the throttle a couple hundred RPM's fixed it. So he turned a smaller water pump pulley on a lathe and now it doesn't get hot at idle.
We're in Central Florida, so it's hot, but getting hotter. I'll report any significant changes in running temps.
The point is, and I was guilty of this. Don't spend days worrying about every last detail and design element. Just get it together with the basics and see what you need to add. We didn't need to do any ducting or angling of the radiator, and you probably won't either.
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