What should we do? |
Body swap |
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7% |
[ 2 ] |
Fix existing rust |
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71% |
[ 20 ] |
Grow some... and fix it ourselves anyway |
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21% |
[ 6 ] |
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Total Votes : 28 |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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Thanks, after chatting with Shane, I'm confident they won't do an "ala bondo" job. But it's good to know!
danfromsyr wrote: |
just be leary of rust repair ala Bondo.. and not being cut out and welded in new steel.
bondo is like frosting on a cake, it's there to smooth over the surface and offer something appealing to the eyes.. but it's not a long term solution and will bleed thru if frosted over rust w/o proper treatment. |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely do a little more research. That decision of ours was also based on how clean we could make the undercarriage look.
MsTaboo wrote: |
DON"T HAVE THE UNDERSIDE TRUCKLINERED! It will only hide problems down the road and will encourage the shop to cut corners because they know the truck liner will hide crappy work.
Better to have good solid paint and add some wax or oil based coating later.
The heavy coating like from the factory can only be done on really solid/new metal. |
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0cean Samba Member
Joined: February 29, 2012 Posts: 1149 Location: California
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MsTaboo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006 Posts: 4094 Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:45 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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0cean wrote: |
With unibody construction, I don't even think a body swap is an option. |
Sure it is. If you can find a good solid, (relatively) rust free 2wd body, all the Syncro running gear and supports can be transferred over. It's been done.
But it's lots of work. _________________ Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
Help the fight against Truth Decay.
Defend democracy, support Ukraine. |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:58 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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MsTaboo wrote: |
Sure it is. If you can find a good solid, (relatively) rust free 2wd body, all the Syncro running gear and supports can be transferred over. It's been done.
But it's lots of work. |
It’d be an amazing way to really get to know your van too!
I wonder how many people started doing that and then the van ends up on Craigslist... |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:30 am Post subject: Our van was painted in Mexico, Tijuana, Los Panchos |
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I realize I never updated this post with our results. We got the van painted at Los Panchos with Shane's help last summer.
Overall, we are happy with the results for the price we paid but there is definitely a little bit of "you get what you pay for." Only time will tell if this paint job will last. We are toying with the idea of getting it clear coated to try to make it last longer.
We ended up paying about $9,500 for (rust repair + paint inside and out + headliner/carpet + truck liner was about $5900):
- lots of rust repair (some welded, some bondo... oh well)
- full body (inside and out) paint job with windows, doors, handles removed
- New seals $1,100
- interior coated with QuietCoat paint $300 extra
- seats and interior panels reupholstered $1500
- headliner replaced
- new carpet
- hiring Shane's help as a facilitator and liaison to check on the van and get parts over the border $1000
We also had these issues:
- front radiator was disconnected and never reconnected (almost cost us our engine!)
- virtually all screws that they touched (which is a lot) were loose when we picked up the van! I'm talking door hinges, gas pedal, pop-top tent screws, pop top hinge, etc
- truck liner applied directly over the fresh paint without sanding it, which means it peels off very easily
- some connecters (powered mirrors, speakers) were painted over, including inside the connectors themselves
- los Panchos lost our front door seals (didn't install any) and never replaced our vent wing seals (they ended up reimbursing us the value of the seals)
- some threads in our reupholstered seats are coming a little loose
- lots of seals aren't glued
- we suspect our rear window (trunk hatch) and driver window leak since the paint job
- carpet is cut poorly in areas such as around the shifter and glued right on top of the windshield washer fluid cap
- headliner applied over opening for dome lights
- door sensors and rear windshield washer pump reinstalled without wiring
Shane does not offer his concierge service nor does he link his website to Los Panchos anymore. It was quite helpful to go to the shop with him when we dropped the van, have him check on it, bring parts and to pick it up. He still has his articles recommending the shop and sharing his own experience. I believe our van was one of the last ones he helped Los Panchos with. Whether it was because of difficulty or to pursue other business ventures, I don't know.
Would we recommend going there? Maybe... it's a matter of knowing what to expect. We had no experience with getting vehicles repainted or getting rust taken care of. Sure some corners will be cut when getting the job done for much cheaper but things like loose screws everywhere, painted connectors, raptor liner applied wrong, disconnected radiators and front doors reinstalled without seals were tough pills to swallow. You do the math.
But hey, our van DOES look awesome!
_________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery |
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Alaskaberrys Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2016 Posts: 1001 Location: SE Alaska
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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Very nice! _________________ '91 Westfalia, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2.1L 2wd Auto
'91 T3 Syncro Doka, Escorial Green 1.9L TD AAZ “Gremian” (to provoke, irritate, exasperate, vex...) |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6832 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:04 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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MsTaboo wrote: |
DON"T HAVE THE UNDERSIDE TRUCKLINERED! It will only hide problems down the road and will encourage the shop to cut corners because they know the truck liner will hide crappy work.
Better to have good solid paint and add some wax or oil based coating later.
The heavy coating like from the factory can only be done on really solid/new metal. |
Ditto on what she said.
The original VW coatings on the bottom were really pretty good.
Take care of the safety mechanical items first.
Just assume the Fuel rubber lines are bad and buy the replacement hoses and clamps and get this done. So you know they are good. No second guessing on this point.
Your going to have to drop the fuel tank to get to those lines so that's during the engine/gearbox out phase.
This is all do-able.
Just open your Excel program and start copying and pasting to make your bible of information and go for it. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:39 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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Looks great man! What did you use for the driver rear window? Van Cafe alum?
What's with the area between the top grill and lower grill, drivers side?
Also if I were in your shoes, I would be testing every single area for water to get in. Like every single area. Protect that investment
_________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Steve M. Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2013 Posts: 6832 Location: Fort Lauderdale, Fl.
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:21 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
Also if I were in your shoes, I would be testing every single area for water to get in. Like every single area. Protect that investment
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Any sign of rust bubbles under the lip of a window rubber is 99% sign or a rust hole under the rubber.
The rubber usually allows water in at the top corners and it migrates down to the bottom and sits and rusts.
Check the fit and even if it is tight add sealant to the top corner voids.
NOT SILICONE. Use a WINDOW SEALANT.
Silicon is a pita to get off the surface and leaves a layer you cannot see and you cannot paint over it. _________________ This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
There are seven days in a week. Someday is not one of them. |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:53 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
Looks great man! What did you use for the driver rear window? Van Cafe alum?
What's with the area between the top grill and lower grill, drivers side?
Also if I were in your shoes, I would be testing every single area for water to get in. Like every single area. Protect that investment |
Thanks! Yes it is the Van Cafe aluminum panel!
I'm not sure what you're talking about for the area between the top and lower grill on the driver side. Just dirty? _________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:56 am Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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VanagonVentures wrote: |
Thanks! Yes it is the Van Cafe aluminum panel!
I'm not sure what you're talking about for the area between the top and lower grill on the driver side. Just dirty? |
VC panel looks great! It maybe just dirty
_________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
VC panel looks great! It maybe just dirty
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Right! We love the panel, especially with that line going across it. We toyed with the idea of doing the other side too but it'd just make the inside too dark we think.
I don't think it's dirt... we did go through some clouds of pretty large moths though and I think that might be what you're seeing.
You do know what goes through a moth's head as it's getting smashed on a windshield, right? _________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3800 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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Ah guts!! _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
Ah guts!! |
Yep, followed closely by its butt. _________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery
Last edited by T3TRIS on Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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riceye Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2006 Posts: 1661 Location: Caledonia, WI
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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Your van is beautiful, Guillaume and Jennifer. I love the bold color choices.
And then this, outside of Helena, MT. Biggest damn bug I've ever hit.
_________________ '87 Westy Weekender - daily driver on salt-free roads
There's gonna be some changes made.
“I find that things usually go well right up until the moment they don't.” - Ahwahnee
"Quality isn't method. It's the goal toward which the method is aimed." - Socrates, later quoted by R.M. Pirsig |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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riceye wrote: |
Your van is beautiful, Guillaume and Jennifer. I love the bold color choices.
And then this, outside of Helena, MT. Biggest damn bug I've ever hit.
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Well thank you! We do like our colors a lot.
And dang... that's a full meal you've got on your windshield! _________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery |
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rmcd Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2010 Posts: 1349 Location: PNW - its a dry rain.
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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Looks great and you got a ton of work done for the cheddar. I had similar done in pdx shop and they fubared many of the same things as you described.
Custom work on a budget doesn’t exist. It looks great 👍 _________________ VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight= |
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T3TRIS Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2017 Posts: 299 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Syncro Body Rust: Fix or Body Swap? |
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rmcd wrote: |
Looks great and you got a ton of work done for the cheddar. I had similar done in pdx shop and they fubared many of the same things as you described.
Custom work on a budget doesn’t exist. It looks great 👍 |
It is most definitely a massive undertaking to do such a restoration. I've spoken to other people who said they had work done locally (for much much more $$$) and they also had some level messing up. While I don't wish it on anyone, it was somewhat reassuring to hear. _________________ Guillaume, Jennifer & T3TRIS
87 2-knob Syncro
- 94 Subaru EJ22, 225/70-R16 CLK 16x7 ET37
- Transaxle rebuild, Mexico paint job, Front end rebuild, 320Ah LiFePO4 Battery |
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