1977 FI engine only partly in & stuck - any advice???

[mr matt]

I can understand now why people pull the tranny and the engine together.

My brother and I have been working 4 hours now trying to fit the engine in.

We have it part way in, ( lower studs in tranny holes, and some push in) but the flywheel teeth as well as the pressure plate is showing - we can slide our hand in to feel the plate splines.

. we feel we need to lift the engine near horizontal to have it go in, but the oil filler tube is in the way. So with the engine at an angle we are trying to push the engine in enough to clear the oil fill pipe then jack the engine near horizontal.

But we are making no real progress with this and are stuck. & kind of wiped out.

Is there a method here? Should the engine be at a strong tilt then pushed in? Any suggestions? We are doing this now, and would hate to leave the engine barely hanging with a floor jack support.

I have rotated the engine to match splines, but did not help.
I replace the clutch assembly, and never with bugs had a mis-alignment with the clutch disc to the transmission post ( whatever it is called)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Matt
_________________
1955 3-fold semaphore Oval beetle
1971 Convertible beetle
1977 Westfalia, FI, Berlin interior

[my59]

In the time you have been working with, you could have dropped the transmission and had it and the engine back in.
I'd be doing that, not leaving the engine hanging.
Hardest part of installing engine and transmission as a unit is the unit lining up.
_________________
my59: Well son, my grandfather died before I got to drive it, so does that answer your question?
our79: sunroof bus w/camper interior and 2.0 FI
Other:'12 Jetta, '77 Benz 300D, and a 74 MG Midget.

[SGKent]

sorry you are having trouble. You need to use an alignment tool in the clutch disc and pilot bearing to align it as you put the pressure plate back on. Before I tighten it too much I remove the tool and put it back a couple times to be sure it is really centered.

You also need to slide the clutch disk onto the input shaft before you even begin to be sure it isn't too tight. Sometimes there can be problems there where the input shaft and hub don't work well together - you might have to check for burrs etc.

Once those are done you grease the input shaft lightly at the tip and splines so the clutch disc hub slide on easily. You also apply a little grease to the pilot bearing.

Then as you put the engine and trans back together - look carefully to be sure that the engine and bell housing are parallel. If the gap is wider on one side or the other or the top vs bottom it won't go. You also turn the engine to make sure the splines line up.

All that said, on my 1977 I pull the engine and trans together. It is easier that way. There just isn't enough room behind the engine to really do the same kind of job the early bays do with the upright engines.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Tcash]

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/EngineRemoval.htm...moval.html

If you did not use a clutch alignment tool, to line the pressure plate up. You need to. One can be made out of a broom handle.

Remove the oil fill tube.
Put the transmission in 1st gear and turn the engine over by hand while pushing in.

[mr matt]

Thank you all,
Yes, I have used the clutch alignment tool, and did put it back in to verify 2X. I did not put the clutch plate on the transmsiions splines to verify fit...

At this point I am learning how to tilt the tranny down ( undo shift coupler, and 2 mounting bolts, lower by jack some, and that should help a lot.

Thanks again.

Next time, I will pull the tranny and engine together...
_________________
1955 3-fold semaphore Oval beetle
1971 Convertible beetle
1977 Westfalia, FI, Berlin interior

[cmonSTART]

[aeromech]

All you need to do is remove the three aft pieces of engine tin and the oil filler tube. The upper foot or so. This gives you the clearance you need to get the engine level with the transmission so it will slide forward into place. I’ve done this many times
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
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VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
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Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Wildthings]

Did you read the instructions I gave in your other thread?

Once you get the engine back out check the alignment with the alignment tool again, you may have bumped thing and gotten the disc out of alignment by now.

[rusty busty]

[jtauxe]

I just removed the engine from the 1975 pickup this morning (for the 4th time, but that's a different thread).

As I usually do, I remove the oil filler neck and stuff on top of the engine (carburetors, in this case) first, but not any tin. Supporting the engine on a floor jack, I remove the hanger bolts at the top of the transaxle and at the ends of the moustache bar, and tilt the trans and engine down together. I set the trans down gently in a chain cradle, threaded through the holes in the body frame. The cradle is just low enough that the engine can be pulled to the rear. Usually this means clearing the coil under the rear valence.

With the trans supported by the chain and the engine supported on the floor jack (at its balance point, and with wood stacked under the heat exchangers to "spot" the removal, I remove the two bolts on the top and two nuts on the bottom of the bell housing. The pull the engine back along the axis of the main shaft and trans shaft.

Then of course I realize that I forgot to remove the vacuum booster hose from the carburetor and that's why the damned engine won't just come out! Typical, amiright?

Then finally it pulls free, and I roll it out to the rear, dropping it again a bit to clear the firewall under the rear valence.

Installation is the reverse of removal.
_________________
John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[timvw7476]

[mr matt]

Thank you all,
Yes, I have used the clutch alignment tool, and did put it back in to verify 2X. I did not put the clutch plate on the transmsiions splines to verify fit...

At this point I am learning how to tilt the tranny down ( undo shift coupler, and 2 mounting bolts, lower by jack some, and that should help a lot.

Thanks again

Next time, I will pull the tranny and engine together....[/quote]


As it is right now, had to call it quits the other evening due to time. Engine is still under the bus at this point.

[rusty busty]

[mr matt]

-



…. …. …. …. ….. .….


Oh no! That would have saved me hours!!! AAAARRRrgh!!! Well at least through the pain, I am learning a lot!.. and some things I will never forget.. like what you just said!

Either I was dark or just could not get a good view, did not see it was bolted. thought it must have been a pressed fitting or something!

Thanks!!!
_________________
1955 3-fold semaphore Oval beetle
1971 Convertible beetle
1977 Westfalia, FI, Berlin interior

[mr matt]

Yeeeeup, I see it now in my manual under the section... "Removing and installing Oil Cooler" Live, and learn.
_________________
1955 3-fold semaphore Oval beetle
1971 Convertible beetle
1977 Westfalia, FI, Berlin interior

[Wildthings]

I usually just mate the engine and tranny by myself. I have the rear wheels sitting on about 6" of blocks and the fronts on only 1 1/2" so the body angles forward quite a bit. This lets the tranny sit pretty much level once its rear has been lowered, so as I push the engine into the tranny it is a nice level push.

[Joey]

I remove the two lower studs from the engine. This way the engine pretty much goes right straight up and in. Put the studs in the lower holes of the transmission before you install the engine as you can't get them in afterwards. Once the upper two nuts are started then screw the two bottom studs back in with your fingers. You may have to rotate the engine a smidge for the studs to easily screw in. Use the double nut method to snug them them up tight. Tighten all four nuts and you're done!
_________________
Joey

‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle

[mr matt]

Both are very interesting methods, thanks.. I am going to consider those.

Wildthings, that is interesting, so this still allows clearance of the oil tube? Maybe at the moment it is hard for me to picture, as it seems you are pretty much back where one started; with the tranny level. Perhaps the difference is the tranny is farther away from the bod, allowing tube clearance.

I guess the procedure here would be to put the bus up on the blocs first, then lower the tranny...if you are having a floor jack supporting the tranny. If you are supporting the trans by a strap, then does not matter.



Joey,

Why cant you get the lower bolts in from the back? Without being under the vehicle right now, seems like there would be room.
Any concern with the gripping of the bolts over time into the engine, as the engine case is not steel.

Thanks all, very much appreciated.
Matt
_________________
1955 3-fold semaphore Oval beetle
1971 Convertible beetle
1977 Westfalia, FI, Berlin interior

[mr matt]

I also had trouble with the tops of the heat exchangers hitting the underbody when I was first putting - trying - to get the engine in. This was part of the problem. I see they can come off, but never saw to do that with any procedure I read. So with the straight push in, is there any interference with the tops of the heat exchangers that you had issues with?

Matt
_________________
1955 3-fold semaphore Oval beetle
1971 Convertible beetle
1977 Westfalia, FI, Berlin interior

[Joey]