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Another dual carb fuel line routing question
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OKType3Tim Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

I've researched TheSamba posts for several previous questions on this subject; but still didn't find a definitive picture that showed a completed installation for this combination:

66' T34, pierburg fuel pump, dual carb. The fuel pump was rebuilt using Pedro's write-up and the Bentley instructions. The pump is installed and is delivering fuel to the fuel pump outlet. Which way to route the outlet fuel line to the junction where the line splits to each of the carbs?

In each picture, the Green arrow/line shows the inlet line. The Yellow arrow/line show the potential path of the pump outlet line. (Yellow line dashed where it runs under some other component.)

Here is one option:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is another option:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

I think I'd do option 1.
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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

I would change the orientation of the top of the fuel pump

Here's a picture from the 66 owners manual
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

[/url]
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

I second ibjack's answer...
when i first looked at your pic i thought the very same....
turn the top 90 degrees to the right so the fuel lines point toward the front.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

Yeah, I thought something looked off. Didn't know if it came that way, or was rebuilt that way.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

New to the type 3 keep doing a lil searching for the best possible fuel line route. If possible move the top inlet outlet pipes for the best route for sure.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

Actually, I had mocked up the rebuild three different orientations based on other past posts here. Thanks for the pointer to the owners manual picture. I'll rebuild tomorrow and post correct pictures. Thank you everyone.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

Although:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This picture from the owners manual shows the outlet line heading over toward the front left corner of the engine compartment, which implies that it was set up to have the shut off valve configuration. My understanding is that the pierburg fuel pump has this function built-in thus the shut off valve is not needed. Correct or no?

With this orientation, still going to have a somewhat radical loop in the outlet line heading back to the center-rear of the engine.

Pros? Cons? of the different possibilities.

[Note: not trying to be difficult, just trying the obtain the wisdom of those that have gone before.]

Here is the way it sits at the moment. And at this point, no fuel has been pumped into the lines on the outlet side of the fuel pump.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'll still probably make a try at reorienting the top tomorrow morning.
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Last edited by OKType3Tim on Sun May 27, 2018 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

This is how mine are routed on my '66. Green is IN from the fuel tank. Red is OUT to the carbs.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


HTH.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

Thank you John,

And here from Pedro:
pedro sainz wrote:

Remarks Notes that fuel pumps 113 127 025A VW7 as ONLY a replacement and came with Caps

And instruction for Type 3s will make you rotate upper part 60 degrees to right and
And install CAP

But the PSI and Calibration of Diaphragm was NOT
Mention


And
pedro sainz wrote:

Plastic caps (insulation) (protective cap)
are for type 3 Only part # 311 127 195 A
Keeps HOT air away for being a so enclosed area
As we seen how plastic gets the beige color avoid vapor lock


So, I've oriented my rebuild per the Type 1 "typical" orientation, but Pedro points out that for Type 3 it needs to be rotated 1 screw set clockwise (60 Degrees).

Note: I hate to give up on the T-fitting being in the holder that was designed for it. Will see how it turns out in the morning.
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PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

OKType3Tim wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Is the hose clamp mounted on the cylinder tin metal or plastic? If it is metal, I'd replace it with a rubber insulated clamp. It might just be me, but I don't like the idea of a fuel hose chafing in a metal clamp.
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

Multi69s wrote:
Is the hose clamp mounted on the cylinder tin metal or plastic? If it is metal, I'd replace it with a rubber insulated clamp. It might just be me, but I don't like the idea of a fuel hose chafing in a metal clamp.


Um, well it is the stock VW part originally used for this purpose. 311.127.525
It is pretty secure, no wiggle at all.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

OKType3Tim wrote:

Note: I hate to give up on the T-fitting being in the holder that was designed for it. Will see how it turns out in the morning.


I think if you use the other version of the "bolt together" mechanical pump, it lines up with the "T" fitting centered where it belongs.
I ran mine there on my T-34.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now that I can see a photo of my set up, I can see the pump head was turned 60* like Pedro mentioned.
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:


I think if you use the other version of the "bolt together" mechanical pump, it lines up with the "T" fitting centered where it belongs.
I ran mine there on my T-34.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Yes, that configuration is what I thought I should be able to implement. What is this "other version" fuel pump?
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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

Here is the final tally...for now.

The full fuel delivery story:
The gas tank was restored by Gas Tank Renu-Waller , TX.
The fuel sender unit was rebuilt by Jim Adney.
The fuel line through the tunnel is original. It was filled with carb clean and allowed to soak overnight. In the morning it was blown out into a catch jug.
This was done, ... three times. The last time, the blown out liquid was fairly clear...not perfect, but close. Never saw any signs of rust come out.

The fuel filter was installed where the fuel line exits the tunnel.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The fuel filter connects to a metal line that runs up through the engine tin. A bit of routing/bending of the the metal line keeps clearance from other components.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


In the engine compartment, the fuel pump was reoriented as discussed in the earlier post, with the inlet and outlet pointing to the front of the car. 60 degrees (one screw set) clockwise from the front (? I guess you could call it the front) of the fuel pump.

The metal line comes up through the engine tin and was bent 90 degrees, headed toward the center of the engine. The inlet line (green) routes cleanly to the pump inlet.
The outlet (yellow line) was routed toward the front left corner of the engine compartment and connected to a 'simple' VW T fitting. (Yep, I had to give up on the early engine T that is captured in a bracket.) This routing actually matches the implied layout that is shown in one of the parts books. Fuel splits at the T and travels to each carb. All of the lines clear the air cleaner, and all major components. No lines are laying right on top of the engine tin (hot). The long line from the T to the right side carb does lay on the top of the block at one point. I'm not satisfied with this, any ideas on hanging it from the balance tube? Or the center air cleaner bracket?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


A little vacuum applied to the pump outlet while cranking the engine got fuel up through the pump very quickly. Then vacuum applied to the right side carb fuel line and a little more pumping and I had fuel to both carbs. Connected the hot wire to the coil. Cranked it over and it fired right up. I shut it off until tomorrow when I need to recheck dwell, recheck timing, set up and balance carbs, etc.

Thanks everyone for the input.

As always, comments and advice are always welcome.
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Another dual carb fuel line routing question Reply with quote

Yes, you could zip tie it to the balance tube if needed. I don't think it'll hurt anything, and with the air cleaner in place you wouldn't see it.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
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