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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3804 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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_________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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just make sure that the actuator reaches the end of it's travel BEFORE the roof does. in BOTH directions.. it likely has the power to crack fiberglass.
you'll likely still need the push up bar? or will you omit it? I'd think it's required for 'triangulation' and stiffness when popped.
200mm stroke with a 9mm/sec movement
will take ~22seconds.
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
Last edited by danfromsyr on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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spitsnrovers Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2005 Posts: 925 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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Fantastic photos of the Autoloc product!
It does look like they provided everything in the kit. Even has swivel ball ends on the ends to allow offset movement. 200mm travel = 8", and 1000N = 225 pounds force. That's a lot of lift.
So I guess all you have to do is figure out locations for mounting holes on the top, and on the van body? _________________ '88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500 |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3804 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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I don't know but I'm having seconds thoughts on putting this in! 22 seconds is a long time!
I'm just wondering how these will handle uneven loads. I might test it on some boards and see how it does.
I'm just imagining that the heavier side will go up slower than the lighter side.
My friend is very interested in it - as he has around 280 watts of solar, and a cargo carrier on his roof. Paired with JackBombay struts and GW struts combo - he has a hard time with popping his top due to uneven load. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:17 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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also to note that you will have to
Lock the push up bar when going up. and unlock it when coming down.. so you'll need a little 'play' in the actuators range of motion some how. the fiberglass may flex just enough.
also
you'll have to open the latch when coming down. I doubt that the actuators will be able to pull the latch down and lock.. it takes some effort by hand and the leverage of the actuators will be very low when they are near horizontal.
leverage
force
stroke
range of motion.
probably some other physics I can't recall. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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spitsnrovers Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2005 Posts: 925 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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The greater the lifting force usually equals slower lift speed due to higher gear ratio. The smaller units I have, 110 lbs force, travel at 12.5mm/sec over about 280mm equals your calculation of about 22 seconds as well. Oh well, the price of ease!
The uneven loading side-to-side brings up this question - Usually one would use these actuators wired in parallel. What would happen if they were wired in series? I don't have a second unit here to try this idea. _________________ '88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500 |
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spitsnrovers Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2005 Posts: 925 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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Well, I am embarrassed Guess what happens when you try to run two actuators in series.
They draw sightly different current so one runs slower. It hasn't reached the end of its travel when the faster one reaches its limit and the limit switch cuts power - to both of them! Of course So one has gone part way, the other fully and they both stop. That didn't work.
Of the two identical brand and models I picked up, I did find that running them with no load, wired in parallel (the only way), one actuator reaches its limit a few mm, or fractions of a second, before the other one. Haven't tested this under load yet.
Oh but it is fun _________________ '88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500 |
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dsdunbar Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2014 Posts: 564 Location: Crozet VA
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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You probably want a logic controller to manage current loads and min/max stroke limits. It's technically DIY doable, but... _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3804 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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I think Hall-effect sensors calibrated to sync the two rods could be used to capture both the rate of rise/descent and stroke length at a given moment. An Arduino could probably handle this type of management quite easily. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6247 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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Think simple - a pair of toggle switches one for each actuator to manually control each side of the lift. _________________ 89 Westy 2.1 Auto
Last edited by PDXWesty on Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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That requires sophistication and effort. This is Merka; we don't have that in plenitude. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Michael4104 Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2014 Posts: 340 Location: Livermore, Ca
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most. |
I returned mine, still waiting for refund. _________________ 1990 Wolfsburg Carat with new poptop.
1985 Westy now sporting a 1995 Jetta ABA 2.0L. Sold |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3804 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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Michael4104 wrote: |
shagginwagon83 wrote: |
That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most. |
I returned mine, still waiting for refund. |
Where did you order yours from?
The reason I want to return is the fact of how long it takes to pop/unpop the top. I pop the top so frequently. I think I'll just run the GoWesty struts and then maybe get a second pair or jackBombay ones. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1890 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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Sort of interesting, novelty going up, but closing my pop top I'm always closing it slowly and placing the tent strategically so the tent doesn't get pinched. |
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spitsnrovers Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2005 Posts: 925 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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For those who did purchase the bolt-in kit - can you please advise where and how the actuators were intended to be mounted?
Anchored to the rear hinge? Like the poptop assist struts.
Drill holes in the tin top?
Mount inside the canvas? _________________ '88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500 |
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shagginwagon83 Samba Member
Joined: February 07, 2016 Posts: 3804 Location: VA/TN
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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I posted the instructions. We know nothing more than that. Hence why I'm returning it. _________________ Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan |
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vanis13 Samba Member
Joined: August 15, 2010 Posts: 3100 Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:33 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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shagginwagon83 wrote: |
I posted the instructions. We know nothing more than that. Hence why I'm returning it. |
In satrtup / product development I believe it is called vaporware..... interesting way to test the market _________________ 83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace
www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make |
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spitsnrovers Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2005 Posts: 925 Location: Calgary, Canada
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit |
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Not to flog a dead horse - but for those still interested in a DIY version of a power pop top, here's my work so far:
http://www.griffco.ca/interest/vw/VWPowerPopTop.htm
All comments and suggestions appreciated. _________________ '88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500 |
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