Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3786
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15129
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

just make sure that the actuator reaches the end of it's travel BEFORE the roof does. in BOTH directions.. it likely has the power to crack fiberglass.

you'll likely still need the push up bar? or will you omit it? I'd think it's required for 'triangulation' and stiffness when popped.

200mm stroke with a 9mm/sec movement
will take ~22seconds.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Abscate wrote:
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker”


Last edited by danfromsyr on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
spitsnrovers
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2005
Posts: 924
Location: Calgary, Canada
spitsnrovers is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Fantastic photos of the Autoloc product!

It does look like they provided everything in the kit. Even has swivel ball ends on the ends to allow offset movement. 200mm travel = 8", and 1000N = 225 pounds force. That's a lot of lift.

So I guess all you have to do is figure out locations for mounting holes on the top, and on the van body?
_________________
'88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3786
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

I don't know but I'm having seconds thoughts on putting this in! 22 seconds is a long time!

I'm just wondering how these will handle uneven loads. I might test it on some boards and see how it does.

I'm just imagining that the heavier side will go up slower than the lighter side.

My friend is very interested in it - as he has around 280 watts of solar, and a cargo carrier on his roof. Paired with JackBombay struts and GW struts combo - he has a hard time with popping his top due to uneven load.
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15129
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

also to note that you will have to
Lock the push up bar when going up. and unlock it when coming down.. so you'll need a little 'play' in the actuators range of motion some how. the fiberglass may flex just enough.

also
you'll have to open the latch when coming down. I doubt that the actuators will be able to pull the latch down and lock.. it takes some effort by hand and the leverage of the actuators will be very low when they are near horizontal.

leverage
force
stroke
range of motion.
probably some other physics I can't recall.
_________________
Abscate wrote:
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
spitsnrovers
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2005
Posts: 924
Location: Calgary, Canada
spitsnrovers is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

The greater the lifting force usually equals slower lift speed due to higher gear ratio. The smaller units I have, 110 lbs force, travel at 12.5mm/sec over about 280mm equals your calculation of about 22 seconds as well. Oh well, the price of ease!

The uneven loading side-to-side brings up this question - Usually one would use these actuators wired in parallel. What would happen if they were wired in series? I don't have a second unit here to try this idea.
_________________
'88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
spitsnrovers
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2005
Posts: 924
Location: Calgary, Canada
spitsnrovers is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Well, I am embarrassed Embarassed Guess what happens when you try to run two actuators in series.

They draw sightly different current so one runs slower. It hasn't reached the end of its travel when the faster one reaches its limit and the limit switch cuts power - to both of them! Of course Brick wall So one has gone part way, the other fully and they both stop. That didn't work.

Of the two identical brand and models I picked up, I did find that running them with no load, wired in parallel (the only way), one actuator reaches its limit a few mm, or fractions of a second, before the other one. Haven't tested this under load yet.

Oh but it is fun Razz
_________________
'88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dsdunbar
Samba Member


Joined: December 19, 2014
Posts: 564
Location: Crozet VA
dsdunbar is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

there is a new thread on the this vanagon forum for the T6 camper van. It has a power lift pop top, watch the video in the link:

https://jalopnik.com/the-2018-vw-t6-california-van-is-the-best-car-thats-als-1825906694
_________________
'89 2WD Westy "Grey Goose" - Manual 4spd
Crozet VA
Vanaru EJ25, Peloquin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

You probably want a logic controller to manage current loads and min/max stroke limits. It's technically DIY doable, but...
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3786
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most.
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

I think Hall-effect sensors calibrated to sync the two rods could be used to capture both the rate of rise/descent and stroke length at a given moment. An Arduino could probably handle this type of management quite easily.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PDXWesty
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6235
Location: Portland OR
PDXWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Think simple - a pair of toggle switches one for each actuator to manually control each side of the lift.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto


Last edited by PDXWesty on Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12103
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

That requires sophistication and effort. This is Merka; we don't have that in plenitude.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Michael4104
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2014
Posts: 340
Location: Livermore, Ca
Michael4104 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most.

I returned mine, still waiting for refund.
_________________
1990 Wolfsburg Carat with new poptop.
1985 Westy now sporting a 1995 Jetta ABA 2.0L. Sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3786
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Michael4104 wrote:
shagginwagon83 wrote:
That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most.

I returned mine, still waiting for refund.


Where did you order yours from?

The reason I want to return is the fact of how long it takes to pop/unpop the top. I pop the top so frequently. I think I'll just run the GoWesty struts and then maybe get a second pair or jackBombay ones.
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wellington
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2004
Posts: 1882
Location: Montreal
Wellington is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Sort of interesting, novelty going up, but closing my pop top I'm always closing it slowly and placing the tent strategically so the tent doesn't get pinched.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
spitsnrovers
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2005
Posts: 924
Location: Calgary, Canada
spitsnrovers is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

For those who did purchase the bolt-in kit - can you please advise where and how the actuators were intended to be mounted?

Anchored to the rear hinge? Like the poptop assist struts.
Drill holes in the tin top?
Mount inside the canvas?
_________________
'88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
shagginwagon83
Samba Member


Joined: February 07, 2016
Posts: 3786
Location: VA/TN
shagginwagon83 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

I posted the instructions. We know nothing more than that. Hence why I'm returning it.
_________________
Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vanis13
Samba Member


Joined: August 15, 2010
Posts: 3082
Location: ABQ NM USA.... Except when not
vanis13 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
I posted the instructions. We know nothing more than that. Hence why I'm returning it.


In satrtup / product development I believe it is called vaporware..... interesting way to test the market
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace

www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
spitsnrovers
Samba Member


Joined: December 17, 2005
Posts: 924
Location: Calgary, Canada
spitsnrovers is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Not to flog a dead horse - but for those still interested in a DIY version of a power pop top, here's my work so far:
http://www.griffco.ca/interest/vw/VWPowerPopTop.htm

All comments and suggestions appreciated.
_________________
'88 VW Westfalia
'75 Triumph Spitfire 1500
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.