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Changing to disc brakes on front
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

livy wrote:
Truly in my garage I must have 8 different sets of wheel that I have purchased at one time or the other on various cars I have had. And the reason I could not use them was the off set was incorrect.

Well, you should know all the facts, lest you have another four wheels to find a place for in your garage. The bad news is that stock 14" Thing wheels have much more backspace than any other type 1 wheel, either stock or aftermarket (someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Lets compare those Rader-style wheels I referenced to the stock ones. 15 x 5 with a 3.25 backspace for the Raders, vs. 14 x 5 with a 4.375 backspace for the stock wheel. The difference in backspace will put the outside edge of the Rader wheel about 1⅛" outboard compared to stock. The 195/70R15 tires are about 0.4 inches wider, or about 0.2 inches wider per side. So the outside edge of the tire/wheel combo I recommended will be about 1.325" outboard of stock. This may cause some rubbing of the tire on the fender with the steering at full lock.

There are similar wheels to the Rader on the same page that PierreG referenced, and might be a better choice. 5.5 inch wide with a 3.75" backspace. So the difference in the backspace is less than the wheel above: only about ⅝". But the wheel is wider by a ½" (or ¼" inboard and outboard.) So to the ⅝" we add ¼" for the extra wheel width and 0.2" for the wider tire - it comes out to 1.08" that the inside edge of the tire moves outboard. That's better than the wheels I referenced.

The question is whether or not there's an inch of clearance to give up. Based on the anecdotal evidence I think there is.

This is why I said you need to get all your ducks in a row before you pull the trigger on any of it.

ETA: someone check my math please. I haven't had anything to eat today. Confused

ETA2: Edited this post per unterkafer's observation.


Last edited by Captain Spalding on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Noel62
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

less backspace means the inner lip of the wheel (and tyre) will be further outboard, and give greater clearance from body and suspension.
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of the Rader rims on a Thing, I have 165 SR 15 tires on the front and 185 70 15 tires on the rear. No rubbing. I have the bolt on AC Industries wide five disc brakes on the front and stock Thing drums on the rear.

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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unterkafer wrote:
less backspace means the inner lip of the wheel (and tyre) will be further outboard, and give greater clearance from body and suspension.

Holy crap! You are absolutely right. I fixed it above. Embarassed
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livy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain: Your post made me think a long time before I figured out you had them switched. But never the less your information was priceless and I called a vendor of wheels today and I knew what I was talking about. Thinks again for your help.
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livy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe I really like your wheels on your car. I am going to use your information on who to buy the kit from. Wheels I like chrome just because they are easier to keep clean. Paint seems to rust in time, aluminum you have to keep it polished. At least thats my experience with wheels tells me. Right now I have the left fender off and painting a new one, a starter I still have not figured out how to get to that top bolt. and a throttle cable that is broken. Much work to do. And during all this my wife ordered a 24 bird Martin house. The instructions start off by saying "allow yourself 16 hours assembly time". I am a busy man.
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Livy, my Thing came with Lemmerz Chrome wheels when I bought it. They rust fast if there is any moisture around, like condensate during changing seasons.

The rader wheels are all aluminum, so the painted spokes will not rust under the paint. The outside rim portion is polished and clear coated, so it does not need to be polished. I bought these raders because the charcoal colored center does not show dirt and they tend to look clean longer. I had them left over from a white '66 beetle and decided to try them on the Thing.

I may as of yet install a set of wide 5 original centerline wheels on the Thing.

Here it is when I got it.

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livy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe: The bottom photo looks like the wheels I have on my car now. When you compare it to the picture of the wheels you now have on your car, it shows me just how plain mine looks.
I really like your new wheels and I will diffidently look at them closely when the time to choose wheel design comes. But until then it's back to the bird house.
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Semper_Dad
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cruised to a show with a guy that had the Rader wheels. I liked them a lot. They did seemed to be tucked in a bit.

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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if he had Beetle spindles on the front to lower it with. If he did, that will suck the front wheels in about 1 1/2 inche per side. Beetle drums on the rear will do the same thing.

The chrome wheels that were on mine stuck out of the fender lip just enough to see the buldge in the tire. The raders on it now just barely set inside the fender lip. The stock 14 inch rims set in further.

I get my wifes '62 beetle done, the raders will go on it and then the Centerlines will go on the Thing.
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livy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe: I agree with you it's Centerlines that I like the best too.
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FV195
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

have just read this whole topic, it got way off track, then came back. I am thinking about putting front discs on my thing. AC Ind. kit that comes with undrilled rotors. $200 plus getting the rotors drilled for wide 5's running 15" centerline copies love the look, and price was right when I got them. have 5 now, going to mount my rear tire carrier at some point, matching wheel will look good I think.
my question is. with front only disks is there a need for some kind of adjustable biaser?
had a few panic stops lately that have me thinking about disks, fronts never locked? need to adjust them I know, but better stopping power would be nice.
My FV race car had a brake biaser in the cockpit, could adjust front to rear while racing(never did) but could. did once when it started raining in middle of race, smidge less rear. Kit says adds 1/4" track, can live with that.
THOR
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have put about 4000 miles on my AC Ind. disc brake on the front of my Yellow Thing and they will lock if stabbed in a panic. I proportioning valve would help reduce that.
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wbrown45
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FV195 wrote:
have just read this whole topic, it got way off track, then came back. I am thinking about putting front discs on my thing. AC Ind. kit that comes with undrilled rotors. $200 plus getting the rotors drilled for wide 5's running 15" centerline copies love the look, and price was right when I got them. have 5 now, going to mount my rear tire carrier at some point, matching wheel will look good I think.
my question is. with front only disks is there a need for some kind of adjustable biaser?
had a few panic stops lately that have me thinking about disks, fronts never locked? need to adjust them I know, but better stopping power would be nice.
My FV race car had a brake biaser in the cockpit, could adjust front to rear while racing(never did) but could. did once when it started raining in middle of race, smidge less rear. Kit says adds 1/4" track, can live with that.
THOR

I run ghia clipers, and a German stock master cylinder in my car. I have never had the front brakes lock-up, but the rears will sometimes if I make a super hard stop. When I went to rear disc brakes on the same set-up I have never had any lock-ups. I have never used a proportioning vavle.
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joescoolcustoms
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tire size will also effect the fronts in locking up. I run a small tire at 165 15. A larger tire may not lock as quick.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kubelmann wrote:
My vote: The K-mann 5 x 130 4 wheel disk brake system that uses the old school Thing front caliper adapters, Ghia front disc brake parts.


I know this was posted a long time ago, but by chance, would you have any pictures of the caliper adapter brackets installed?
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dirtkeeper
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joosty_chin wrote:
kubelmann wrote:
My vote: The K-mann 5 x 130 4 wheel disk brake system that uses the old school Thing front caliper adapters, Ghia front disc brake parts.


I know this was posted a long time ago, but by chance, would you have any pictures of the caliper adapter brackets installed?


This is what i used. I forget now where i got them. These are thing spindles with aftermarket adapter that uses the ghia style components. I modified the backing plates to work but some people don't use the backing plates at all.

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Arkansauced
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Changing to disc brakes on front Reply with quote

I’ve got a used set of those adapters would be willing to make a deal, PM me if you’re interested!
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