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Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit
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shagginwagon83
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

just make sure that the actuator reaches the end of it's travel BEFORE the roof does. in BOTH directions.. it likely has the power to crack fiberglass.

you'll likely still need the push up bar? or will you omit it? I'd think it's required for 'triangulation' and stiffness when popped.

200mm stroke with a 9mm/sec movement
will take ~22seconds.

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spitsnrovers
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Fantastic photos of the Autoloc product!

It does look like they provided everything in the kit. Even has swivel ball ends on the ends to allow offset movement. 200mm travel = 8", and 1000N = 225 pounds force. That's a lot of lift.

So I guess all you have to do is figure out locations for mounting holes on the top, and on the van body?
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shagginwagon83
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

I don't know but I'm having seconds thoughts on putting this in! 22 seconds is a long time!

I'm just wondering how these will handle uneven loads. I might test it on some boards and see how it does.

I'm just imagining that the heavier side will go up slower than the lighter side.

My friend is very interested in it - as he has around 280 watts of solar, and a cargo carrier on his roof. Paired with JackBombay struts and GW struts combo - he has a hard time with popping his top due to uneven load.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

also to note that you will have to
Lock the push up bar when going up. and unlock it when coming down.. so you'll need a little 'play' in the actuators range of motion some how. the fiberglass may flex just enough.

also
you'll have to open the latch when coming down. I doubt that the actuators will be able to pull the latch down and lock.. it takes some effort by hand and the leverage of the actuators will be very low when they are near horizontal.

leverage
force
stroke
range of motion.
probably some other physics I can't recall.
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spitsnrovers
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

The greater the lifting force usually equals slower lift speed due to higher gear ratio. The smaller units I have, 110 lbs force, travel at 12.5mm/sec over about 280mm equals your calculation of about 22 seconds as well. Oh well, the price of ease!

The uneven loading side-to-side brings up this question - Usually one would use these actuators wired in parallel. What would happen if they were wired in series? I don't have a second unit here to try this idea.
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spitsnrovers
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Well, I am embarrassed Embarassed Guess what happens when you try to run two actuators in series.

They draw sightly different current so one runs slower. It hasn't reached the end of its travel when the faster one reaches its limit and the limit switch cuts power - to both of them! Of course Brick wall So one has gone part way, the other fully and they both stop. That didn't work.

Of the two identical brand and models I picked up, I did find that running them with no load, wired in parallel (the only way), one actuator reaches its limit a few mm, or fractions of a second, before the other one. Haven't tested this under load yet.

Oh but it is fun Razz
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

there is a new thread on the this vanagon forum for the T6 camper van. It has a power lift pop top, watch the video in the link:

https://jalopnik.com/the-2018-vw-t6-california-van-is-the-best-car-thats-als-1825906694
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

You probably want a logic controller to manage current loads and min/max stroke limits. It's technically DIY doable, but...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

I think Hall-effect sensors calibrated to sync the two rods could be used to capture both the rate of rise/descent and stroke length at a given moment. An Arduino could probably handle this type of management quite easily.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Think simple - a pair of toggle switches one for each actuator to manually control each side of the lift.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

That requires sophistication and effort. This is Merka; we don't have that in plenitude.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most.

I returned mine, still waiting for refund.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Michael4104 wrote:
shagginwagon83 wrote:
That's what I was thinking. Maybe have some type of digital level that can detect if one side is higher than the other. I think this is too much trouble than what it's worth. I might start a return. The uneven load factor is what I worry about the most.

I returned mine, still waiting for refund.


Where did you order yours from?

The reason I want to return is the fact of how long it takes to pop/unpop the top. I pop the top so frequently. I think I'll just run the GoWesty struts and then maybe get a second pair or jackBombay ones.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Sort of interesting, novelty going up, but closing my pop top I'm always closing it slowly and placing the tent strategically so the tent doesn't get pinched.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

For those who did purchase the bolt-in kit - can you please advise where and how the actuators were intended to be mounted?

Anchored to the rear hinge? Like the poptop assist struts.
Drill holes in the tin top?
Mount inside the canvas?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

I posted the instructions. We know nothing more than that. Hence why I'm returning it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

shagginwagon83 wrote:
I posted the instructions. We know nothing more than that. Hence why I'm returning it.


In satrtup / product development I believe it is called vaporware..... interesting way to test the market
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Bolt-In Power Westfalia Pop Top Kit Reply with quote

Not to flog a dead horse - but for those still interested in a DIY version of a power pop top, here's my work so far:
http://www.griffco.ca/interest/vw/VWPowerPopTop.htm

All comments and suggestions appreciated.
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