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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Cars are expensive mainly because:
1) Money is cheap, loans are long, and most buyers seem go by the monthly payment, not the price.
2) Raised expectations of what a "basic" car is. Power windows and locks, A/C, decent stereo, bluetooth... these were either not available or expensive options back in the days of the $2000 VW/Pinto/Vega/Corolla/B210.
3) Costs of R&D, crash and emissions testing, longer warranties, legal liability, employee benefits... damn, it's a lot more expensive doing business today!
Best overall buy depends on your driving, plans to keep/sell, and your own expectations. For me, the best deal is a certified used... great warranty, lower price because the original buyer already took the depreciation haircut. Probably nearly as reliable as a new car. And a year or two to check Consumer Reports/Carfax for problems before you buy. |
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Onceler Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2010 Posts: 1646 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Well since I started this thread, figured I'd give an update. My wife crashed her Equinox again, so I don't think I'll be buying a newer car anytime soon. But, the good news is she didn't want to fix it, and just pay it off (she's convinced it's cursed, lol) with the insurance money. It's not to bad, I think I can have it pulled by a frame shop and and start using it as my daily. But now she wants a convertible, so this thread was basically all in vain...oh well, hopefully I can at least convince her to buy a used convertible, but she's checking out camaro's _________________ 1972 Karmann Ghia |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22641 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Its a fact of anthro that we are very poor judges of what value things are as we have a strong bias to our notion of worth set in formative years.
Here is probably the best way to 'gauge' true cost..how many hours a middle class worker has to work to purchase a mid range car, from an article in Hemmings - un-validated.
Short version - in worker hours cars today are up 15-20% in cost, but one can argue the product is a lot better than in 1965
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In 1965, the sticker price of a new V-8 powered Ford Mustang coupe was $2,734.00 (the equivalent of $19,900 today), and the average production worker made $3.00 per hour; to purchase a new Mustang coupe with a V-8 engine, therefore, required 911 hours of work, or about 23 weeks. By 1985, the cost of an eight-cylinder Mustang had risen to $9,885.00 (today’s $21,100), while production wages had risen to $12.50 per hour, meaning that one needed to toil for just 791 hours (120 hours less than in 1965) to buy one. In 2005, the scales tipped in the opposite direction: the V-8 Mustang was priced at $25,815 (today’s $30,300), and a production worker made $23.92 per hour, requiring 1,079 hours of work to buy the car. The picture darkens a bit further in 2013, where the $31,545 Mustang requires a worker earning $27.15 per hour to put in 1,162 hours in order to pay the Ford off. |
_________________ .ssS! |
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Volks Wagen Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2926 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Onceler wrote: |
Well since I started this thread, figured I'd give an update. My wife crashed her Equinox again, so I don't think I'll be buying a newer car anytime soon. But, the good news is she didn't want to fix it, and just pay it off (she's convinced it's cursed, lol) with the insurance money. It's not to bad, I think I can have it pulled by a frame shop and and start using it as my daily. But now she wants a convertible, so this thread was basically all in vain...oh well, hopefully I can at least convince her to buy a used convertible, but she's checking out camaro's |
Trade in the wife for a topless model yourself! _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22641 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Onceler wrote: |
Glenn wrote: |
Onceler wrote: |
Wow! That's a heck of a deal, I'll have to check them out, thanks |
Last month, I got my wife a Subaru Legacy Premium with a Sunroof and a few addons for $25,200 for 0% for 60 months. I only put $500 down and the rest is 60 payments. |
I guess I never realized the value Subaru offers, in my town there aren't any Subaru dealers, so I never really checked them out, just cruising the lots. But I will thanks |
No Subaru’s in Indiana
Hmmmmmm.
You can push the AC button all winter long and your compressor won’t go on. The compressor is inhibited below about 35F. Having to run your AC to keep it lubed in winter is an internet myth. There are a couple of designs which can run but VAG products don’t use them. _________________ .ssS! |
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slave1pilot Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2010 Posts: 943 Location: Tehachapi CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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All of this A/C talk has me cracking up
especially when dude said "Freon"
everything we are making now has R1234YF, and that shit isn't cheap at all _________________ My Photobucket for my Herbie Project - http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/TK-439/library/Herbie?sort=3&page=1
Currently:
1963 Ragtop Beetle
Previously:
1967 Beetle
1968 Beetle
1970 Beetle |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22711 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Abscate wrote: |
Onceler wrote: |
Glenn wrote: |
Onceler wrote: |
Wow! That's a heck of a deal, I'll have to check them out, thanks |
Last month, I got my wife a Subaru Legacy Premium with a Sunroof and a few addons for $25,200 for 0% for 60 months. I only put $500 down and the rest is 60 payments. |
I guess I never realized the value Subaru offers, in my town there aren't any Subaru dealers, so I never really checked them out, just cruising the lots. But I will thanks |
No Subaru’s in Indiana
Hmmmmmm.
You can push the AC button all winter long and your compressor won’t go on. The compressor is inhibited below about 35F. Having to run your AC to keep it lubed in winter is an internet myth. There are a couple of designs which can run but VAG products don’t use them. |
It's not an internet myth, really. It's an owner's manual "myth", and has been for decades. All of my old 1960s/ 70s Mercedes owner's manuals specify that this should be done, as did all the VWoA Z A/C kits we installed at the stealers.
Never heard of the A/C system being "inhibited", either; in fact on newer cars they are designed to come on with the heat in defrost mode to dehumidify the air. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21513 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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And....actually its not a myth at all and has never had anything whatsoever to do with keeping anything "lubed".
This is why things like this "sound" like a myth....is because typically the first people that start passing it on.....get the information so jacked up.....that when people who actually know something....finally hear the resulting garbled version years later......they find the jacked up version to be physically improbable....and call it a myth without further research.
Its a version of the "cocktail party effect"
The system needs to occasionally run.. to keep the o-rings expanded under tension against the grooves they are sealing in....because even the green HBNR o-rings used with the R134 and later refrigerants....have a constant shrinkage rate from the day they are molded.....small...but constant.
I have seen this problem across a range of industries that use o-rings that store gas pressure.....or gasses and oils combined. Ray |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22641 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Never heard of the A/C system being "inhibited", either; in fact on newer cars they are designed to come on with the heat in defrost mode to dehumidify the air. |
Yeah, Im wrong on this.
If you start the car in winter, and push the AC button, the compressor won't go on. Once the evaporator gets above 35F roughly, the inhibit gets lifted, so with the defrost on, the AC works
Its the evap temp that inhibits the compressor, not ambient, in modern designs. In the 90s I had cars that inhibited on ambient.
So running the car in winter, warmed up, will exercise those AC parts.
On edit - this exercised my memory banks so that I remember how this burned me once.
I had a 1999 Volvo and was addressing an AC issue in winter, and couldn't get it to come on. This climate system (very common design) pushes Climate air through the AC evaporator first and then mixes with heated air from the core to blend to temperature.
My recirc door arm had fallen off, and even in recirc mode I was not getting the evap core temp above 34F, so the AC compressor wasnt going on.
Most DEFROST functions go to recirc for that reason - the cabin air will heat the evaporator above the compressor trip point, as well as removing humidity of course. _________________ .ssS!
Last edited by Abscate on Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22641 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:19 am Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Short version - in worker hours cars today are up 15-20% in cost, but one can argue the product is a lot better than in 1965 |
I think one has to concede you get twice as much car today vs 1965, easily
Power
Economy
Comfort
Features
Cost of ownership _________________ .ssS! |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34003 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: New car prices today, why so expensive? |
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Abscate wrote: |
Quote: |
Short version - in worker hours cars today are up 15-20% in cost, but one can argue the product is a lot better than in 1965 |
I think one has to concede you get twice as much car today vs 1965, easily
Power
Economy
Comfort
Features
Cost of ownership |
I agree with all but the last one. Cars do not last as long now.
I know engines are more reliable and long-lived, but the car becomes a throwaway once you have too many broken and unobtainable plastic parts. "Beyond economical repair" means it's dead.
If the 1965 car lasts twice as long because it's metal and repairable, it halves the cost of ownership over its life cycle (not exactly, but you get my point).
I tend to keep cars for a long time (not just my vintage VWs), so the "feasible repair lifetime" is important to me.
But you can add another feature that new cars excel in... SAFETY. And that may trump all others. |
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