master series rust treatment

[blatzer]

any luck with this stuff

[skills@eurocarsplus]

I have used it am have been very happy with it. after too may POR15 failures, this is my go to for chassis stuff.

same concept as POR, but it actually works
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[Lil Lulu]

I have a battery box that I coated with Mseries 11 years ago. Still rust free.
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'65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus

'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002

'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles

[cmonSTART]

Interesting. Is the same sort of prep as for POR?
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'78 Bus 2.0FI
de K1IGS

[blatzer]

sounds like this stuff works!

[bigdaveb]

I’ve used both systems on my bus and ended up abandoning the POR-15. The POR-15 is a 3-step process – 1) remove the flakey and loose surface rust and use the POR Marine Clean cleaner and degreaser, 2) coat the surface with the POR Metal Prep treatment – which seem to behave the same way phosphoric acid does and 3) apply the POR-15 rust prevention coating. If any of these steps are done incorrectly, the coating will fail – and there have been reports of the coating just peeling off by hand.

Masterseries does not require this process to work, other than sandblasting or a wire wheel followed by a good degreaser and a tack cloth. After sandblasting the undercarriage of my bus, as well as all of the suspension and steering components, I sprayed two coats of Masterseries silver as a primer:

If you decide to go this route, here are a few things to keep in mind:

1. Once it’s exposed to air and humidity, it will start to cure. What I and others have done is poured the quart into several smaller jars and put a small sheet of plastic wrap between the screw-top lid and the glass jar. It creates a slightly better seal, and it allows you to open the container again. MS dries very hard and is very difficult to remove, even if you sandblast it with aluminum oxide. Its also no fun to find your quart of MS completely hardened. I’m speaking from experience.

2. Do not get it on you or anything that you don’t want to throw away. Always use gloves with MS - it will stay for days/weeks if it gets on your skin. Once on clothing (or concrete for that matter) it is permanent. Definitely wear a respirator. The fumes get pretty bad, especially when spraying.

3. Once you coat the surface you have about a 72 hour window to top coat it (high-build primer, paint, etc) without having to sand or scuff it - but still clean and tack cloth. This behavior is similar to DPLF coatings, so the idea would be to schedule the applications of your coatings so that you can get something on the MS within about 3 days. Ideally, you want to top coat within 24 hours. As you can imagine, scuffing MS is an effort in futility, so save yourself some trouble by properly planning out your coating schedule.

You may want to also check out the Body/Paint forum as well. There are plenty of posts about MS. Hope this helps.

[raygreenwood]

Its VERY hard to find SDS and composition data on Master Series products.....but I think I found some a couple lf years ago.

Its a very different type product than POR-15. The POR-15 is a rust converter in the primer stage (phosphoric acid or oxalic acid or both)....and uses that conversion coating as a primer......so the PREPARATION.....must be perfect or it WILL fail.

So.....if you are lazy and leave piles of rust over about .003" deep........or....and this is more common.....if you are not lazy....but you remove 100% of the rust.....or if you cannot reach or prep areas of thick rust.....POR-15....WILL FAIL.....either partially in spots or it can fail in sheets.

So if you sandblast away all of the rust to shiney metal.....use something other than POR-15.

The master series/master coat products.....are a catalyzed urethane product. Their method of both adhering....and stopping/neutralizing thin to moderate rust......is to make a full AIR AND WATER TIGHT encapsulation of it.

They even state this....technically....in their technical data/instruction sheets. Because it does not use chemical neutralization.....they state that sandblasting is best....but on thin, tight rust....full encapsulation will stop that rust and they are correct.

If the rust is very thin.....it will not have enough surface area to entrain much free oxygen or water vapor. And....the active curing part of the resin.....will penetrate thin rust enough to both dehydrate and de-oxygenate the rust it can reach.

The chemistry that does this "de-oxygenation".... is the isocyanate resin. Which is about 50% give or take.....methylene chloride. Methylene chloride bonds with oxygen....and then is catalyzed into the isocyanate resin and bound into the urethane.

I cannot stress....and Master series uses the same language.....how TOXIC isocyanate resin with methylene chloride is. Use freaking gloves and respirator.

But.....the master series urethane mixture...will for sure stick like freaking mad, be very chemical resistant.

The other problem with POR-15......is that it is technically an epoxy. That means its VERY susceptible to spoiling the cure from excessive humidity, cold or contamination from stray solvents....and age on the shelf....and damage from freezing .

I have seen POR-15 work extremely well.....but its not something you just slap on in any conditions . You have to prepare very well. Ray

[blatzer]

that is so beautiful under there....

[blatzer]

and an interesting support safety system too

[mygreenbus]

Any primer brand will work? One doesn't need a special brand?
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'72 Bus

[raygreenwood]

[mygreenbus]

RAy, sorry I wasn’t clear. You could have avoided the sarcastic answer. Once you put the Master Series down, what primer can go over it prior to paint? POr15 had a specific primer.
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'72 Bus

[raygreenwood]

[Tcash]

Think about that for a minute......
It's all about the way you look at it.

I always try and give the author the benefit of the doubt and not read to much into what is written.

Example
"Think about that" = you Stupid, Moron, Idiot, Imbosul, get your head out of your ass and think about what I said, use your brain!

"for a minute...... = a looooong minute, because It is going to take you forever to come to grasp and understanding of what I am saying.

OR

"Think about that" = give what I said some thought.

"for a minute...... = for a minute or how ever long you need.

Happy Fathers Day
Tcash

[raygreenwood]

[Yarkle]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=396637

username vwsplitman

he is a licensed dealer of it, and can answer any questions you might have on it. He was probably at Litchfield today selling it.

on my sons bus, we went from this:

scuffed it and used ospho on it, then used masterseries with a foam brush

(two coats i think, its been awhile)

then used eastwood chassis black

and

(i know these arent the best looking pics, but it takes a high solid topcoat very well with a foam brush, and its like a rock now)

then, due to my dumbassery, i used the eastwood green stuff to hit the frame areas i couldnt reach after i did the masterseries and chassis black.

so, ive had GREAT results with a hard wire brush or grinder with a flap wheel for the heavy rust, a scotch bright pad for light rust, then wipe it down, a coat of ospho, then the masterseries, then chassis black.

but plan on throwing out anything you are wearing and plan on wearing any you get on your skin for a few weeks
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Tilda the Mustard Tigress 1973 Squareback (o'''^'''o)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=771024&highlight=

[Merling]

Old post, but since I'm back on the classic VW owner list and am re-educating myself on things I did years ago I figured I would chime in. I used the master series silver primer on all three car's i've redone. On my baja i also coated it with their AG 111 product which was a two part mix I put over the silver primer and that thing was shiny and bullet proof when I sold it five years later. I have noticed left overs tends to harden over time even if you get a good seal on the can. Anything remaining will harden up after a month or so.

[raygreenwood]

[kguarnotta]

I'm using this stuff for the 3rd time...
some notes -
- it seems like a great product

-it can go bad. ie once you open it, it only lasts a short time - so plan your work accordingly. I am not great at that - and I end up running around my house looking for rusty things to hit with the paint - once I've got the product open.

-it can go bad on the shelf, never opened. Plan accordingly. I' have bought some stuff far in advance - and projects get delayed...then went to use it - and it was all bad. EVen though I'd never opened it.

-coverage - I can't recall the coverage I got the first two times - but I am currently using it to do the bed of my '69 singlecab. With one quart of the primer silver stuff - I was able to easily get 2 coats on the bed and the vertical section under the rear glass. I just used the AG-111 for the first time. I've got one coat on, and it looks like a quart is going to get me 2 coats. I hope that helps anyone else trying to determine how much you need.
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-Kevin
Lincoln, MA

'86 Triple Knob Syncro w/EJ22
'78 Westy
'69 Single Cab
'65 Kombi - EZ-Camper

[raygreenwood]

If you are interested, here is some of my work 2ith master series silver with a top coat of stone guard in 2020.

It starts in the middle of page 2 ....on this page in my build thread for my 412.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20

Both the master series and the stone guard are fantastic products!

Ray