78 bus starter w/relay No click no nothing

[Lencki]

Installed a starter relay about 5 years ago and everything has been great until recently. In the past few weeks it has not done nothing the majority of the time I turn the key. No click no nothin. After testing my coil and starter, I can start it by jumping the wires on the solenoid, I determined it was my relay on the starter. Bought a relay from Reilly yesterday, and as soon as I plug it in it kicks my starter over with the key off. So this morning I went to autozone and bought a relay from them. Plugged it in and it does absolutely nothing. Same as before, no click no nothing when turning the key. Both new relays appear to be a match 2 87's, 85, 86, and 30. Same 5 prong pattern. Anybody got a clue?

[SGKent]

[Lencki]

How do I jump the ignition switch

[SGKent]

there is a connector block at the base of the column. You can jump across the ignition switch there. Make sure it is in neutral. This is a manual trans right? If it is an automatic then there is a lock out switch that can go bad too.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_77-78.jpg
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[lil-jinx]

Your 2 87s may be a 87 and a 87a,the one in the middle is live when relay is not activated the other is live when activated.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
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1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[cellobus1]

The majority of the time. Do you have your original ignition switch?
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1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive

[Tcash]

Bypass the relay by connecting the Red/black wire to the push on terminal on the starter.
Give it a go.
If it cranks relay or relay wiring is bad.
No crank test the wiring connections to and from the ignition switch and the ign switch.

"D" is the Ignition switch
Click on pic

[Lencki]

The original Bosch relay, and the one from autozone both just say 87. Neither of those do anything. The one from oreilley is marked 87 and 87a it’s the one that kicks my starter over as soon as I plug it in with the key off. I did remove the relay altogether yesterday and wired it up direct to starter as original with no luck.

My ignition switch is newer, 4 or 5 years, its a Merle.

From what I can tell the red/white wire runs from ignition switch to starter, do I need to locate it where it runs to my ignition switch plug and run a new wire to the starter. When I tested the red/ white wire by the starter I got no juice both with the key off and also with key on trying to start.

[SGKent]

then just replace the ignition switch because it sounds like that is where your problem is. Those switches do go bad. I carry a spare one for that reason.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Tcash]

Test the ignition switch. This diagram is for a 1972 but will give you the idea.
Locate "D" (ignition switch), jump the red wire that comes from the fuse box to the Red/black wire that goes to #50 on the ignition switch.
If the engine cranks the ign switch is bad.
If not one of the connections on the Red or the Red/black wire are bad.

Happy Fathers Day
Tcash

Click on pic

[cellobus1]

I still have the original switch on my bus. Years ago I discovered that if you push up on the bottom of the switch HARD with your left thumb, while the key is turned to start, it cinches up the contacts that may have worn out over the years.

That's why I perked up when you said the majority of time, because it probably dies in stages. I've had to cut away part of the plastic housing to keep its sharp edges from digging into my thumb, but this is how I have been rolling for ~20 years or so.
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1976 unrestored daily driver Standard bus, "Stella"
formerly, 1959 Standard bus
formerly, 1973 transporter which was 4 years old when it taught me to drive

[Tcash]

Ignition switch testing , voltage drop test

Ignition Switch Removal/ Lock Removal

[Lencki]

Hooray!!! Got the bus running again today. It was indeed a bad ignition switch. Only took about 20 minutes to swap out since it’s been done before and didn’t have to drill and extract the tamper proof bolt. Thanks to all who replied with info and suggestions. I live in a place where people with VW knowledge are few and far between. Without the samba and everyone who take the time to read and post about all the crazy shit people ask about, I’d be sitting on the side of the road somewhere in BFE.

Thanks again to everyone!

[SGKent]