Transmission Q - looking for ring + pinion opinions (long)

[Sodo]

Dial indicator is cheap at Harbor freight.

The Mainshaft bearing is a thermal interference fit into the gear carrier housing. Mainshaft bearing controls the axial movement of the mainshaft (appx zero movement) . If the bearing is loose in its bore you need a new or sleeved housing. Can’t have the mainshaft slopping about. It has to resist gear thrust.

How are you planning to clean the Peloquin? Yourself? Or is your rebuilder capable of cleaning the Peloquin and how much $$ will that add? Some don’t clean it cuz its fulla worms, then it pollutes your new trans with old trash.

.....uncharacteristically short posts cuz Im out in the woods....
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[gears]

It's a bit of a chore to disassemble the Peloquin. The key is to use a T-bar when removing the allen head bolts, so the bolt heads don't strip. I think Gary Peloquin will do it for mailing charge only if you send it to him.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Waldi]

Use some old stiff painture to check the "contractual picture?"

If you dont have clearance on the pinion, may be the pinion is not adjusted well.

With that much crlearance on the main ball bearing your 4th idler is touching the bearing shield inside on load in 3rd and 4th, which can produce noice.

You need to mashine grind the nose to get the marks off, and to use a new or welded bearing retainer. All ball bearings are moving in the shield a bit on a hot box. Thats not a problem. Ofc it is better to have a shield where the bearing enters with load when cold. I glew them always in, heating the shield up before, knowing it weill become loose with time.
If ginding the nose you need to grind also the axle of the bearing retainer which enters into the nose.
Dont use paper gasket on the nose. I see it wasnt already there.

[jasonpap2002]

[jasonpap2002]

Did not make it to HF for dial indicator. Hope to do so tomorrow.

Opened the spare transmission.

Unfortunately not much better than the other, although feels slightly better.

Was hoping for pristine but what can you do. The transmission likely has ~140k on it from a 1.9 wbx.

Also spoke to Gary Peloquin today (he called back after I emailed). Said it was ok to flush with oil prior to reinstalling but did not indicate anything else would be required. He also indicated that there was current problems with FAG pinion bearings that may require some hand shaping (2 tenths at most). Sodo, this reminded me of your post:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=685481&highlight=pinion+bearing+hand+ground

Anyway - am still thinking of sending the extra transmission instead of the one I recently pulled but want to get dial indicator on both. Worst case I send both (whats another $100, ugh).

Thanks folks, more when I have it.

~Jason

[jasonpap2002]

Wanted to provide an update. I sent both transmissions to my rebuilder (Bill @ Arizona Transaxle Exchange).

Feedback -

The trans that was in the van was pretty well worn out. The pinion bearing was going and it caused the ring and pinion to start eroding.

The Quaife is good and the Weddle 3rd and 4th look good although they are the tallest ratio they make. This makes sense as I had a huge gap between 2nd and 3rd (and hated it).

The plan is to rebuild the backup transmission. It has a good 4.86 ring & pinion (the one from the van was a 4.83). The pinion bore is loose unfortunately and so a steel sleeve will be added.

Going to add South African oiling plates, and a steel mainshaft thrust retainer. Sticking with the stock 3rd gear, but moving to a 0.82 4th gear. Drill and tap for a temperature sensor.

Can't wait!

~Jason

[rmcd]

I am under the impression that Installing the oiling plates will prevent you from using the fill hole for pumping and filtering as described in Sodo posts. While at it you might also drill an aux filler port for this?

Where are you putting the temp sensor?
Thanks for sharing.
_________________
VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=

[E1]

For those readers who do lots of dirt, have a Wasserboxer (the OP here has a Subie), and don't care about less revs on the highway, and/or have tires larger than stock 25-something inches, I cannot recommend changing to a 5.43 ring & pinion enough!

We went to 16s and BFGs are 27" tall. Please make sure you know your "permanent" tire height, gearing revolves much around that. I would not recommend changing 4th just for better mileage, not with a stock engine anyway, might be okay if traveling mostly on flat ground, otherwise I know I wouldn't like it. In my view the stock engines can utilize more revs not less, and altitude worsens this.

Bill did ours and is one fine supplier and person, please say Hello!

We also did the SA plate and the mainshaft plate, and went to a .78 4th to lessen top gear revs slightly. The only loss is a larger gap from 3rd to 4th but it's nominal and a fair trade for better acceleration and climbing for all gears up to 4th. If doing it over I'd have left gearing stock but added a 5th gear in the form of a Granny 1st. Waaah.

Arizona Transaxle installed a new Paul Guard 4th gear, one of the first off the shelf, built by "Gears" here -- and definitely an upgrade from Weddle in materials and strength!!!

Enjoy!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[crazyvwvanman]

I'd like that as well but AFAIK that isn't really an option with a T3 2wd tranny. It is only the 2 highest gears that are individually selectable, the lower gears are machined into the mainshaft. So gearing choices and spacing are limited at the low end by available mainshaft versions.

Mark

[Sodo]

[E1]

[gears]

The only thing difficult about TBD disassembly is removal of the allen head bolts holding it together.
A T-bar MUST be used to break the Loctite bond .. or you'll almost for certain strip the bolt heads.
(Hold the TBD solidly in place in a press.)
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Waldi]

som ppl will aways ignore facts that do dont fit their preopinion.
Like scoops or oil plates do not work.

[jasonpap2002]

Great questions folks, will gather info and reply.

Sodo, I have not explored the 3rd and 4th gear myself and so can't comment on wear, I am providing feedback from Bill @ Arizona. He indicates they are good (did not say "like new") but I want to move away from such tall gears and so am switching to stock 3rd ratio and a new 4th.

In general - it sounds like oiling plates may provide value. However, it is not encouraged to add them if I want to move to filtering b/c they block oil to 4th.

Waldi - I don't know which camp you fall in - do you feel that SA oiling plates add value if one was not to add filtering?

If the consensus is that oiling plates are not worth anything in any scenario then I will leave them off, monitor temperature carefully and change fluid "often" (once a year at min). At some point I can then add a filter (although now is the time to drill and tap if needed, I need to review Sodo's posts again).

~Jason

[rmcd]

[Sodo]

I'd take every benefit you can get, if you could get cool oil past them to the 4th gear mesh. Then whenever the pump is NOT running, you have the oiling plates working. There was a buzzword for them in the machinery journal, it was something that made sense, something like "oil climb plates". Anyway it's NOT an invention by VW south Africa, they are simply adding known gearbox oiling methods. But who has "the data" how well they work? Nobody I've ever heard has any proof or comparisons. But I'd say it's pretty likely they are worth using.

They cannot even compare to a pumping system in function, but significant plusses are: they cost less, are reliable, available, and builders know how to install them.

The problem with "notching" the plates is the path (from the oil filler bung to the 4th gear mesh) goes right thru the mounting bolt. This kind of mod is real hard for a tranny rebuilder to do. If you can take all the parts to your shop, figure it out, then give it all back to the builder that would be good. But how many builders can work like that?

It's sad to choose one or the other.
Herman chose BOTH.

Sorry jasonpap2002 I know this doesn't really HELP you. The thing is, you HAVE an EJ25. If you have the ability to build a reliable pumping system, want fil;tering too, and you think you will enjoy the project,,,,,,, Well then I'll say I really like my system, and I bet my transaxle does too.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Waldi]

If somebody do not see evidence that plates work, based on this pics, well, no coment.

[jasonpap2002]

[Sodo]

[jasonpap2002]

Been a bit of time and wanted to provide a status update.

Transaxle is back from Bill at Arizona Transaxle... Man there is nothing like a clean, rebuilt transaxle. Sure glad they didn't paint it (personal preference).

I filled with 85x90 oil (dinosaur) and installed. Bill indicated to run it that way for 1,000 miles and then switch to Swepco.

New Lobro CV joints with Swepco grease that I replaced while I was in denial about the transaxle noise:

Close up of the temp sensor:

And a drive to the park:

All I can say is that it's like driving a ghost ship - no transmission sounds at all. I honestly didn't know vanagons could be this quiet (my first).

With the new gear ratios (very close to stock), it shifts much better too - feels right. I have the ej25 but have no intention of running it at 75+ mph and the engine has excellent mpg as it is, don't need the tall 3rd/4th.

Sodo - I also had Bill drill and tap for a filter. One step at a time.

I'm now buttoning up the exhaust a bit more and driving it gingerly while I gain confidence. I replaced the rear main seal while I was in there and so far, not leaking. Also replaced clutch, flywheel, pressure plate and clutch slave and that seems to be working (doing some adjustment on pedal height).

Still need to figure out the odd stumble I get in the idle when I pull to a stop after about 20 seconds but thats another story.

Will keep you updated as to progress! Thanks to all for the advice along the journey.

Jason