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Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter.
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Sharp64 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

I say do whatever works best for you. If cutting an access hole is the ticket then party on. Done cleanly, who cares?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

I cut a large access hole for in the luggage area partly for this reason. But also because the battery, oil cooler/filter are mounted under the luggage tray and I wanted to be able to easily access everything. Welded in supports for the cutout and it is fully bolted and sealed. The carpet will be easily removable to access it but with the carpet laid down you don't even know it is there.

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I say do what works best for you but do it in a way that is not a molestation of the car, don't be one of those Previous Owners.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
never a need for an acess hole for me, plenty of engine removals and installs. The dog house fan shroud makes it even tighter, but still no need for a hole. Suggest you try different wrenches. There are captive bolt designs for the starter side upper bolt that dont require you to hold the bolt head.

I think a change in tools and method will work just fine 10s of millions of these engines removed and installed without an access hole needed.

If you do cut an access hole, seal it to prevent water ingress from road spray, else your luggage area and or floor pans may suffer rust.

Good Luck, Bug On!


Just because you’ve always done things a certain way don’t discount a different way or idea. The access panel idea was VWs idea first and it probably was discontinued as a cost saving measure. Access panels, gaskets extra hardware and nutplates might cost more than a delete option and as you’ve stated those maintenance items can be reached from under the car.

I’ll give you another example. 1972 VW bus did not have engine access cover and getting to that 1700cc engine from above is a pain, the very next year guess what the door appeared and it opened. I’ve owned both years.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

iowa vw wrote:
I cut a large access hole for in the luggage area partly for this reason. But also because the battery, oil cooler/filter are mounted under the luggage tray and I wanted to be able to easily access everything. Welded in supports for the cutout and it is fully bolted and sealed. The carpet will be easily removable to access it but with the carpet laid down you don't even know it is there.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I say do what works best for you but do it in a way that is not a molestation of the car, don't be one of those Previous Owners.


Thanks for the pic. it's great to see how it can be done well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Umm, that's just a big f&*%in hole cut into the back of the car, you should ask for a pic of the finished product before saying "well done".

I will say that it's better than what someone did to my oval. Just don't use a hatchet, chisel, & a can opener.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
Umm, that's just a big f&*%in hole cut into the back of the car, you should ask for a pic of the finished product before saying "well done".

I will say that it's better than what someone did to my oval. Just don't use a hatchet, chisel, & a can opener.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The car isnt finished yet (paint next month, full body off restoration) but I will take more detailed pics next week when I'm changing out the transmission and adding some other modifications. I figured go big and do it right rather than a small hole that limits access.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

i'm with you on an access.. do this to all my bugs - '54, '55s, '67, '63 and etc - is the access Mother VW stopped including after the mid 1952 models - once the square weave is rolled over the cover, no one is the wiser.

I try to be as neat as I can be and add a wooden lip to allow the cover to rest on it - for some unknown reasons, i have my critics... I think most critics are just frightened to be creative - GO FOR IT, like they did in the splits...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Not frightened by creativity, rather concerned about a hack solution to a non problem.

bug on.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

bluebus86 wrote:
Not frightened by creativity, rather concerned about a hack solution to a non problem.

bug on.


Still having problems embracing new ideas? Or bringing old ideas back?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
Not frightened by creativity, rather concerned about a hack solution to a non problem.

bug on.


Still having problems embracing new ideas? Or bringing old ideas back?

You know, that worthless assed hatch cover from the '73 bus would be about perfect for that package shelf.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
bluebus86 wrote:
Not frightened by creativity, rather concerned about a hack solution to a non problem.

bug on.


Still having problems embracing new ideas? Or bringing old ideas back?


There are as many new and old ideas as grains of sand on the beach, very few of the ideas are worth embracing.

So Im frightened by creativity, and refuse to embrace a new idea! Whow, thats a convincing argument for just about anything. I agree fully with that.

Hack away, but always Bug On!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

An access cover is a great idea, but you have to wonder why VW didn't incorporate it into the vast majority of its millions of Beetles. With all the mechanics wrenching on all those Beetles all those years, it seems evident to me that there was a simple way to get at those spots (as outlined in earlier posts on this thread) that outweighed the costs of providing an access hole.

Next time I have to get at that fourth engine bolt I will be trying that sit-on-the-fender technique. Sometimes it's not a matter of being resistant to new ideas, but just giving the situation a bit more thought as to why that "great" idea never was implemented.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Glenn wrote:
Allen head bolt with a long extension and a swivel allen drive.

Please don't hack the car.


I just use long extensions and a socket from underneath, for me the trick is to move farther forward than one thinks and reach back, under 5 minutes.

When I replaced the transmission on my 1970 in April, I also used an allen bolt in this location, takes an 8mm allen socket now; got the allen bolt at Ace Hardware down the street. This is especially helpful if one has a late 1960s-1970 transmission that has the ridge for a D-headed bolt (for use with pre-1971 engine cases).


About a 1000 times right.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

I would worry a bit about a large access cut in that location due to its proximity to the rear seatbelt mounting points. I think cutting there would REALLY weaken the area in the event of an accident. These cars are relatively dangerous as it is, and this would surely enhance risk. OP may not care about this- I get it. The splits didn’t have seatbelt mounts, but your later bug will.

That said, it could be reversed in the future, and it does seem a handy place for access, although I have never had a big fight with the bolt you’re referring to either.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

panicman wrote:
I would worry a bit about a large access cut in that location due to its proximity to the rear seatbelt mounting points. I think cutting there would REALLY weaken the area in the event of an accident. These cars are relatively dangerous as it is, and this would surely enhance risk. OP may not care about this- I get it. The splits didn’t have seatbelt mounts, but your later bug will.


I agree that cutting a hole in the luggage area could potentially weaken the car, after all there isn't that much metal on these things to begin with. But that is why I said just don't do a hack job and do it right. I have build a framework that is welded to the underside of the luggage area for strength and support and the cover bolts to that. It also incorporates a seal for fumes, dirt, etc. For most cars I don't think and access hole is needed but it is convenient and for my application just makes everything easier.

There is nothing wrong with modifications as long as they don't destroy the integrity of the car or are hack jobs. I prefer mods that are also not really noticeable.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

When I was doing it for a living it took me 15 minutes tops to remove an engine. Never had any problem getting the engine bolts and nuts out on early or late models.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
When I was doing it for a living it took me 15 minutes tops to remove an engine. Never had any problem getting the engine bolts and nuts out on early or late models.


Same here, many a motor pull or install, nothung special needed, Standard Sears Craftsman hand tools, one or two combination wrench, a 1/2 in drive ratchet, possibly an extension and socket. even worked well when I put a doghouse shrouded motor in my 61 Bug, (a non doghouse motor is a piece of cake. )
It helps to undue the top bolts first, the lower keeping engine and tranny tight together so once loosened the top nuts spin off easy with no axial load on them. once loosened, with a squirt of oil they should finger spin off easily. thus when doing assembly, make sure the threads are not buggered up, and use antisieze, you will than yourself next time.

Been doing this since I was a kid, never felt the need for any access hole.

Dont really want to be inside the Bug cabin anyway with greasey hands, clothes, tools and parts, keep it clean inside.

Bug On!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

That's a lot of metal to hack out of a uni-body car even if a VW body is bolted to a pan "frame". Unitized construction relies on every piece of metal being in place and welded for strength. Floors pans, roofs, even bonded-in windshields in newer unibody cars count as part of the structural strength of the car. You'd be surprised how much a panel of sheet metal adds strength to a body especially in side collisions and rear end collisions in this case. Screwing the panel down with bolts, sheet metal screws, pop rivets, etc adds almost no strength. The small removable panels that VW used to use probably didn't weaken the area much, but VW even stopped doing it.

I cringe when people repair floor pans and rotten heater channel / rocker panels with roofing tar, canvas, fiberglass and Bondo. These people are in for an unpleasant surprise in a severe collision and these cars are pretty unsafe to begin with even when they were brand new.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Typical samba logic, split hairs, say anything to cast doubt but the fact remains. VW once had a service panel at this location and although I can only assume they did away with it as a cost saving measure. Final question to ponder, how many angels could fit on the head of a pin? 😁
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. Reply with quote

Has anyone tried this to remove that bolt?

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-8-pc-standard-reversible-ratcheting-combination-wrench/p-00942404000P
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