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sshulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2008
Posts: 694
Location: Succasunna, NJ
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 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:04 am Post subject: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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I have the opportunity to purchase a 74 super. Looks like a good deal for the east coast. Question is, Can i change the bumpers and mounts to the 73 style? Also possibly the front suspension to 73 style too?
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17 years old
German Looker in the Making
73 Super Autostick OG paint Marina Blue
72 Super
60 Mango Ragtop Camper Bug Project Thread
63 Ragtop Project
73 Auto Westfalia
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:14 am Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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To my knowledge the bumper mount bracket area on the wheel housings are different along with the cutouts through the fenders.
The 74 has the updated suspension because of problems with the 73 but it is a direct swap.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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sshulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2008
Posts: 694
Location: Succasunna, NJ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
To my knowledge the bumper mount bracket area on the wheel housings are different along with the cutouts through the fenders.
The 74 has the updated suspension because of problems with the 73 but it is a direct swap. |
What if I used 73 style bumper brackets?
_________________
17 years old
German Looker in the Making
73 Super Autostick OG paint Marina Blue
72 Super
60 Mango Ragtop Camper Bug Project Thread
63 Ragtop Project
73 Auto Westfalia
2056 Type 4 Engine Build Thread
Filthy Buggers |
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Fiddlestyx
Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2015
Posts: 401
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:23 am Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
The 74 has the updated suspension because of problems with the 73 but it is a direct swap. |
What problems does the 73 have?
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1983 Vanagon Westfalia Air-cooled
1973 Super Beetle |
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sshulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2008
Posts: 694
Location: Succasunna, NJ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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Vw was always improving their cars so I’m sure they improved it somehow.
_________________
17 years old
German Looker in the Making
73 Super Autostick OG paint Marina Blue
72 Super
60 Mango Ragtop Camper Bug Project Thread
63 Ragtop Project
73 Auto Westfalia
2056 Type 4 Engine Build Thread
Filthy Buggers |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| sshulk wrote: |
| Vw was always improving their cars so I’m sure they improved it somehow. |
Improvements did not always happen. Power went down, over heating was a concern, mileage suffered on later models as ill concieved smog control devices where added. 74 should not be too bad, but round about 75 or 76 so things really got bad. I believe the most powerful Bug motor was circa 71 or so. Bug wieght also increased as power went down. smog laws caused the power to reduce after 71 or so. If you need smog testing, some of the later cars have hard to obtain smog parts. egrs, thermal reactors, exhaust filters, catalysts, special exhaust and heater systems, etc
but 74 is not too bad.
Bug On!
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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The opinion is held that the 73 system is so bad that vw did a mid year change to make it better. Others say it it okay. I think the 74 has a lesser scrub radius so drag on one of the front wheels at a time doesn't make the car tend to pull into a puddle or whatever. I don't personally think it helps against the 'super shimmy' but I could be wrong. 73's are narrower so bigger wheels in the front is easier and 74's push the weight of the car under the inside of the wheel more.
I'm pretty sure that 74 wheel housings have the the same bolt pattern but the housing is formed so the bumper shock is wrapped by it. If you can weld and so some metal fabrication it should not be a big problem.
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My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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Dwayne1m
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2011
Posts: 3538
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| I don't know if the bumper mounts on the chassis are the same, but the mounts themselves are way different, so the holes thru the fenders are way different too. |
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David_nc_72std
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Joined: August 22, 2015
Posts: 841
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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sshulk
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2008
Posts: 694
Location: Succasunna, NJ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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As long as the holes in the body line up that’s perfect. I’m going to get carbon fiber bumpers so I can source some brackets
_________________
17 years old
German Looker in the Making
73 Super Autostick OG paint Marina Blue
72 Super
60 Mango Ragtop Camper Bug Project Thread
63 Ragtop Project
73 Auto Westfalia
2056 Type 4 Engine Build Thread
Filthy Buggers |
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H2OSB
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2013
Posts: 1292
Location: Modesto, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| sshulk wrote: |
| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
To my knowledge the bumper mount bracket area on the wheel housings are different along with the cutouts through the fenders.
The 74 has the updated suspension because of problems with the 73 but it is a direct swap. |
What if I used 73 style bumper brackets? |
You can use the 68-73 bumpers if you use these brackets https://www.mamotorworks.com/VW/product/bumper-bracket-front-lh-or-rh-for-302-894_313373 I'm sure you can find them from another source. Mid-America tends to be...iffy
Rear I'm not certain of.
H2OSB |
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H2OSB
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2013
Posts: 1292
Location: Modesto, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
The opinion is held that the 73 system is so bad that vw did a mid year change to make it better. Others say it it okay. I think the 74 has a lesser scrub radius so drag on one of the front wheels at a time doesn't make the car tend to pull into a puddle or whatever. I don't personally think it helps against the 'super shimmy' but I could be wrong. 73's are narrower so bigger wheels in the front is easier and 74's push the weight of the car under the inside of the wheel more.
I'm pretty sure that 74 wheel housings have the the same bolt pattern but the housing is formed so the bumper shock is wrapped by it. If you can weld and so some metal fabrication it should not be a big problem. |
Actually, the early suspension cars handle excellently (as do all Super Beetles)...when all the rubber is new. VW did indeed redesign the suspension with the hope of eliminating the eventual shimmy. The scrub radius wasn't the cause, however.
H2OSB |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| Quote: |
| You can use the 68-73 bumpers |
The wheel housings are different where the brackets attach. The replacement panels and patches stop at 1973.
| Quote: |
| Actually, the early suspension cars handle excellently |
It looks like VW was just changing parts like people do when they can't find anything worn or out of balance.
The two bolt years are wider in the front which changes handling.
Supers start to vibrate when the suspension is not under compression or rebound so it's not like energy is being transformed from static to dynamic because of the suspension.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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H2OSB
Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2013
Posts: 1292
Location: Modesto, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Actually, the early suspension cars handle excellently |
It looks like VW was just changing parts like people do when they can't find anything worn or out of balance. |
VW engineers did a design study after the issue kept cropping up. It was discovered the design of the McPherson struts NEEDS weight over the axle to work properly. When there is little weight over the axle, the struts cause micro-oscillations which gradually wear the rubber bushings over time. It's not any one part of the design (well, aside from the struts themselves). If one worn part of the suspension is replaced, the oscillations move down to the next weakest link in the chain, and the issue continues. VW tried increasing the negative scrub radius with the two bolt design, in the hopes the issue would be remedied. When that didn't work, they tried adding rack&pinion steering. I've actually seen the TSB where VW corporate instructed service depts to simply replace every rubber part in the front suspension if a customer comes in complaining of shimmies.
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beetlenut
Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 2983
Location: RI
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: turning a 74 super into a 73 |
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| sshulk wrote: |
| I have the opportunity to purchase a 74 super. Looks like a good deal for the east coast. Question is, Can i change the bumpers and mounts to the 73 style? Also possibly the front suspension to 73 style too? |
Short answer is yes. I did it on all four corners.
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scrapyards are for quitters
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| Wetstuff wrote: |
| ... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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