Hell In A Bucket! WildIdea's 1977 Sage Green Westy

[WildIdea]

Well I guess this was a build thread after all, so I’ll go ahead and share another system refresh and how the service went. Since I’ve been doing small shakedown runs there have been a few things become immediately apparent that need attention I couldn’t really see while she rested. I knew that the shocks were likely roaches and put them on the list when I got the bus, at the bottom. Now it seems obvious that they need swapping out with freshies.

I did some poking around and read up on a few threads here and asking my buds what they thought. I called a few local parts stores and they had some shocks that would work for around 35 bucks but that seemed real generic. It seemed that a general consensus on one thread was the Bilstines. Brian helped me locate the current proper order codes and went ahead and ordered them from Summit Racing. I believe was a little over 300 without checking the packing slip. A few days later they arrived. And with a free day to tackle the install I jumped right in. Brian predicted 45 min for all 4 but I had my doubts. I had read a few comments about how screwed you’d be if you upper rear mounts stripped out and I had sprayed them (and my rear break stars) with Blaster a few times a week or so ago just in case.

I started with my passenger front because I have the most clear room there in my garage and wanted this to start off right. I thought the original shocks looked pretty retro in there but if they aren’t working right they must go bye bye...the shocks were shot. Pretty easy to move by hand and gurgling etc. should make a huge improvement with the new ones. Didn’t take long and the new shock was in and tire on, all torqued to spec and repeat the drivers side no problem.

My gut gave me a warning ping before I twisted anything in the drivers side rear, but I had to find out. Of coarse, the upper rear mounting bold acted weird and eventually stripped. man, I thought I was gonna come out OK so I didn’t panic. At first it looked like a cotter pin through a nut, and then I realized it was a thin piece of sheet metal coming from two sides of nut.....let’s just say an angry hateful soul hid that mounting nut up under the tightest place they could find. I tried to get a wrench on it but the area was just too tight. I proceeded to grind down a 17 mm open ended wrench so I could get up in there, but that just would not hook up. What an awkward space, I really banged up my head and forearms trying contort and to get myself in a place to operate and function. I really couldn't tell what size the nut was and needed to take pictures to see what it looked like because my big ol head wouldn't fit for a look see. I bet I dinked around on that 1-2 hours before I called Brian. He said just cut that bolt off from the front. I was horriblizing and thinking I needed to pull engine and gas tank to make an access whole, and he dismissed that instantly, said I should keep working from the wheel well.

Let me remind you that if something is closer than 18 inches from my head I can’t focus on it without reading glasses. I also employed my emergency hiking headlamp for some light, and with some frustrated grease stains and bedhead, I made quite the sight...


So I’m in deep now at this point. This is a place I hate to be, frustrated, and tripping over all my tools and wallowing in my mess. Driven by the thought of success but fearful I’d make a rash decision and wreck something. Am I alone here? I hope not.

Anyway, pressing on, I busted out my grinder with a cut off wheel and cut off the head of the mounting bold and tossed that old shop out of my way. This gave me a little more room to play and I was able to push the bolt into the mounting collar about a half inch, allowing me to get my mini saws all behind the stuck nut and slowly saw through it,.....and freeing it!!!!!I will make a note that if I ever have another bus and the engine and tank are out, I'll do the shocks then.

Once it was out I realized it was a 19mm but resigned to think I wouldn’t have wanted to bring that baby down a mile to fit in there. Maybe I will need to to get the new nut on, we’ll see.

So I have to wait until tomorrow to get a new bolt as I don’t have the proper one in my collection and set off to do the passenger rear. That side comes off fine but I realize my original bolts are about a half inch too short now, so so I’ll need 4 new all around for my rears. Once they’re in hand, they should all drop in fine.

Checking my rear brakes, they seem adjusted just right, so I'll move onto my parking brake cable next. I was hoping to not only do that but install my starter relay, but that shock mounting bolt hassle just broke me for the day. I'll lick my wounds and proceed fresh tomorrow.

[Tcash]

Someone broke the square welded nut off before you.

Compress the new rear shocks and make sure they are not too long. If they are they will rip the shock mount right out of there when they bottom out.


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

Happy Father's Day
Tcash

[WildIdea]

[yellowCOwesty]

Yeah, that sucks....

Mine were shot too, so if I remember correctly I went with HD Boge ones. Like you I pre sprayed mine down and they all came apart eventually.
_________________
_______________________

'78 Westy
Currently yellow and white "Sunny"
A few other air cooled VW and Porsches over the years

[WildIdea]

I got out int he garage this morning for a little measuring. And best I could, I compressed my new rear shock and held a tape measure next to it while fumbling my phone. That only worked so good with the tape measure so I tried my yard stick, accept it is an old time metal one and pretty dark and hard to read in the picture. I lightened the photo some but I can pretty much call the compressed distance 16 inches. I'll go with 16 from mounting hole to hole as the honest number.

With the bus jacked up and tire off, I quickly get my shock in place with the short hardware. It gets in there, just not as solid as I would like for the permanent install, but OK for this compress travel test.

I get my other smaller jack up under the shock mount and start raising the wheel. I get it raired as much as I feel prudent, squishing the rubber bumper quite a bit and measure. I would think a huge bump could compress/max out the bumper maybe a ½ inch more? I don't know the force at play here but the rubber bumper mount is only so big too, so I'm thinking it was to maybe at most take up another inch??? I took a pic of it before and during the test to show how compressed I got it.

With my fingers crossed, I measure again. I'm coming up with somewhere around 18 inches from bolt to bolt with the bumper compressed. Thats the why lie to yourself number, so I'm calling it 18 inches.

I thinking there is no way the bumper would take up another two whole inches that the shock has to play before there is any stress on the top mounting stud. The rubber bumper would have to compress itself out of the picture before the shock maxed out. I'm satisfied at this point that this shock is a decent fit for the bus and pleased that I know how it will perform. I never knew this much about shocks but I'm getting up to speed slowly. Thanks for the feedback.

[Clatter]

The down-travel stops at the end of the torsion bars, under the spring plate bushing cap, will tell you how far the suspension compresses.
They design those to hit right as the stops get smushed completely..

That 'kong toy' stop compresses a LOT.

Like when you hang he rear fender on a chopper,
You take the coil-over springs off,
Then mock the bike up without rear springs, with the shocks bottomed.
Lay a piece of rubber hose on the tire for good measure,
Then drill your fender holes with the fender lying on that.
(if you run sissy shocks.. )

Similarly,
It's best to take the torsion bars out, compress to full travel, and measure.

Going to be doing this with Damon's bus this weekend, hopefully.
If you can wait, i'll get that measurement.

Otherwise, there's got to be someone here who has the fully-compressed center-to-center measurement for these things..

Were your KYBs limiting up-travel?
I know when we pulled Damon's,
The suspension dropped almost an inch more after the shock came off.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[RalphWiggam]

I posted a chart on shock dimensions awhile back. Uncompressed and compressed length of various shocks.

You can also find the exact dimensions online so you arent doing any guesswork.

[Tcash]

Fun fact about the Kong. No bus dog should be without one. So if you are wondering where that suspension stop went off to? You know know.
https://www.kongcompany.com/the-world-of-kong/the-kong-story/

[WildIdea]

Thanks guys.

I thought that stopper looked like a Kong, haha. Guess it is a Kong.

As far as the old shocks, I just wanted the sea sick swaying to get reeled in. I suspected like all the other parts that age out these would be toast and that was confirmed when they came off.

I’ve had the shovel 22 years. It had shocks with the stock frame but it is a hard tail now.....I never liked a passenger back there so I eliminated the option and the rear suspension.

[notchboy]

_________________

[WildIdea]

I'll share the last few thing that have been accomplished so far the last few weeks. I've had some projects I sailed through and some I got hung up in, but they are all getting done and checked off the list to some degree.

I was hoping to be a little further but the shocks took me two days not 45 min. I guess it's typical for me to muddle through some of these problems for the first time. I don't really care as its my project car. It's been raining steadily the last two days, so what a great time to have off and work out some bugs on the bus. Thanks for bearing with me if you've done this all a bunch of times. My buddy Brian says I'm making all the normal VW mistakes, almost in order....

I have to laugh a little because I was carrying around my Bentley to work and home a few day but never got the 10 min to look up the wiring for my front headlight not working properly. Once I sat down and cracked the wiring section I could see the front headlights have basically their own fuses and a quick simple wire. I went out and took a picture of my fuse strip and enlarged the picture and I realized it was just a fuse on 3 that was cracked. I was looking for a blown fuse with no wire in place not the invisible stress crack and it had looked to me like a good fuse. Don't laugh, I should have swapped all them out the day I got the bus probably, but I went ahead and swapped the fuse now and I had my headlight. Super cool! easy fix there and now I have new lamps and a few spares around.

I went ahead and replaced the whole run and put its cover on.

After the shock replacement was complete, I set out to get my starter relay installed. It seemed pretty important as I feel the low ignition power likely toasted my Bosch reman and I had a few false starts with my new repaired backup. I had even removed it to see if I had any bad spots on my flywheel and went up and under my bus 21 times before my mark came around again. That was two hours of fun, but I just had to know before I happened to destroy another starter. I did file a few burs, but I didn't find anything that really concerned me or Brian.

One night last week, Brian wired me up a starter relay and a few instructions. Today it went in and with a twist if the key......NOTHING.....oh yeah, the ground strap on the battery.......A lit dash at half key and BAM, she started strong! I will say even noticeably strong. Repeated one more time and she started strong and quick that time to. So I'll be watching that system, but I believe this is going to be a big help for that system. Thanks everyone for the recommendations and the parts Brian.

I was thinking just how sore my body is from working under the bus for the last three days and sanding filler on the split. I'm not complaining, I want these to be solid pretty bad, still I was chuckling in my last shower because I was wiping gravel bits out of the skin on my back and runs of oily mud coming from the brush I had on my knees. A few ibuprofens and I starting to get back to normal. I'll be sitting all next week, so it's abs by bus workout and under bus burpies for my exercise. When the weather clears I'll give some driving reviews.

[TomWesty]

Regarding your relay, I will tell you a story. My wife and I were reconciling the bank statement one afternoon when there came a knock on the front door. I answered the door and my next door neighbor informed me that my VW bus was parked in her front yard! My bus had driven itself over a snow drift, hit a Honda ( You meet the nicest people in a Honda) and drove uphill to park in her front yard. The relay which was mounted much the same as yours got wet and shorted out and engaged the starter! You may want to get longer wire and mount your relay inside the engine compartment, fishing the wires along the big positive cable and through the grommet.
_________________
If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music!

[Tcash]

X2 what he said.
You might be better off asking for any tips or tricks before starting a project. You can ask in another thread, then continue your write up here.

Good luck
Tcash

[WildIdea]

[notchboy]

[Chochobeef]

The relay for the starter is probably one of the best and cheapest things you can do to have reliable starting.

I'll agree with moving it to a drier location. I always hated those relay holders. Can't use thick wire in them. I used 10awg from the battery to my relay and relay to starter. Ground for it was also 10awg. The exciter wire can be left alone and extended since it won't be carrying all the amperage anymore.

Either way, you have it and I don't think you will have any issues starting even when hot.

If we don't make mistakes, how do we learn right? Thank you for your stories. I enjoy reading them.

[Clatter]

FWIW, I have had one of those type of relays up under my bus since 1989 or so,
Without any issues.

One thing, though, you might use the tab on the relay itself,
Instead of the plug/socket?

Always see those hanging with the tab up,
So the wiring comes down from the relay,
That way the water/muck falls off of the relay,
Down/around,
And doesn’t fill the connectors..

If that makes any sense, or is real..


Another idea:
The stock/old-fashioned headlights on these are pretty feeble.
Late at night, with the whole fam damily on board,
Plus my old eyes,
Makes me want some modern light bulbs.
Because they draw a lot less power,
And light the road up way better,
And are cheap,
Plus there are easy (and hard if you really want) kits,
Kinda almost got to..

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/7-H4-Halogen-Headlight-12V-CONVEX-Curved-Lens-p/ac945460ec.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/H4-LED-Headlight-Bulb-Conversion-Kit-PAIR-p/h4-led-kit.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/H4-HID-High-Intensity-Discharge-Conversion-Kit-p/h4-hid-kit-35w.htm
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Ride_On]

Great and inspiring thread - thanks! Fun to follow for sure! I'll have to remember some of those side routes in and around Mt. Rushmore - I'm sure we'll make it there eventually.

If you are thinking of a headlight upgrade, we upgraded to Truck-Lite 27027C lights a year and a half ago and they still put a big smile on my face. The swap was 100% plug and play for us. Massive difference in safety and fatigue.

We're overdue for shocks too I'm sure. Interested to hear your impressions of the Bilsteins once you get some mile under your belt.

Cheers!
_________________
1977 Westfalia 2.0 FI Skills EJ25 w SubaruGears 5sp
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687254
2018 Golf Sportwagen 4MO DSG (Dieselgated 2013 Golf Wagon TDI DSG)

[WildIdea]

Thanks for the feedback folks, I gotta say, that when I was putting the relay up under there it crossed my mind that it would get wet and eventually dirty. I figured if fouled it would fail, not start up my bus on its own. It will be a snap to move and I likely will.

You gotta know by now I'm not afraid to put myself out there. You've seen every nook and cranny of this bus so far and I've got nothing to hide. In fact, it's kind of silly to hide by omission things that prevent others form helping you. I've taken plenty of criticism and even some ribbing here and that's OK with me, Thats Life!

I'm not a ligit bus man yet and I'm not a automotive professional by trade, it's simply my goal to be a responsible bus owner operator, and frankly, I don't trust many people local to get after it like I would. I don't want to act like a bus Wannabe, rather a "Want To Be" who listens to pros and takes the advice of people who have gone before me, without bugging or leaning on them too much and I try to bring my own brain to the table, as feeble as it might be.

This whole journal has been a realistic account of an Everyman and his thought process while he refreshed a bus at his house to eventually trust and enjoy. I know there are more than one way to do things and parts to chose and I strive to keep an open mind here because I haven't been around long enough to know. I don't know if this is even helping or hurting the Forum by posting this stuff, but I've taken so much from here I though a little going back was proper.

A heartfelt Thanks to the Forum members here that have read and checked in and commented. Its been a fun interaction. I even thanked Kevin again the other day for even selling me the bus as its changed the whole dynamic of my life and family structure for the better. How it begins is how it goes and it's only brought joy so far and I don't expect that to change.

[WildIdea]

A few up dates on what shock life has been like.

I apparently I have been going without them completely. They were so shot (I could pump them back and fourth easily with my hands and slight gurgling sound) that they didn't produce any resistance really. I wonder if having them in here at all actually provided some side support or like a strut and at what level of support a blown shock provides. Probably a single digit percentile would be my guess but trying to run the bus without any to know isn't something I will be trying.

It had been raining a lot so she sat a few day until the coast was clear to drive and I was able to take her to work without to much threat of getting her soaked. I haven't been in a rain storm yet and I'm a little afraid as it will take the bus days to really dry out, so I'm just blue bird days for now. I have this long 50 MPH "S" curve on my way into town and I could tell right away that the fronts were really playing a part there. I could almost feel them standing tall on the outside of the turn and if they could talk they would say "I got this!" Before, I had to take it at 40 and now I could hang with the speed limit or more if I wanted. Driving without good shocks, I would almost call it "speed intuition" and I had been letting off the throttle a bunch to keep me feeing stable and now I can say I have the confidence to just hang into a curve like never before. It wasn't like they were bouncy really, just like I was really top heavy and on the verge of tipping all the time. That feeling is thankfully gone.

I got off early the other night in time to gather up the family and hit dinner in the bus. No objections there, which is the best because most of the things I enjoy are real eye rollers for 9 and 11 year olds. I do kind of promise sweet treats for sure, but they agree the bus it the funnest vehicle they could ever be in. After some Pizza and a stop for ice cream we just cruised around testing the stability. I headed out Old Folsom Road that is a lonely horse property road at dusk. I nice lazy railroad track matches the asphalt and the waist high grass runs right up to the road. Cat says she never comes out here and forgot how pretty it was. We were kind of nervy about deer as you can't see them with the grass so tall and they barely stick out, save for their red coats this time of year. The cool night air is the best and you can just tell the engine prefers it. At one point Cat says "Hold on man, why the hurry?" I said, Sorry, Its just I can almost fly now with this suspension all tight and it really helps realize the potential in the killer engine Brian built me. The vibration and harmonics were so smooth and she really purred on that road just loving 50-55 MPH, super smooth and she hung right in on the vertical whoopdie hills and lazy side to side curves and compounds of both.

The bus does have a rattle in the passenger door and something dinging on the slider. I imagine it is some kind of rubber bumper missing on the glass bottom rail or the winder tapping and that maybe an adhesive aged out long ago and fell off and I missed when I refreshed the doors. We don't care, in fact it tests ones OCD and you forget about if because you have to. We even chuckle that if a new car today rattled like that you just would not even think of buying it. We accept it in this rig. I will hunt it down at some point but not a priority.

Maybe it's big where you live to, but out here it seems mandatory when someone buys a pickup truck to quickly jack it up with monster wheels and tires, put a bunch of steroid looking fender trims and deer basher grills on and chip it. The diesels they call it "rolling coal" when you stomp the fuel it blows a huge cloud of black exhaust on everybody. Seems there is some joy in that for the operator, lets say, I'm not a fan and leave it at that. The other day I was driving the Bus home and I could hear this turbo whine before I saw it and I could see this beast pulling up along side me on a small hill. I could just tell this dude was gonna dust me with exhaust, so I just let off and let him pass without a challenge. You know, I could have easily kept up with the traffic speed and maybe even hung in there if I ran the gears right, but I have nothing to prove, I mean really, I'm just listening to Jerry and that has really helped me calm down in traffic.

I still had the steering damper to put on and and adjust my parking brake cables.

My bus's stock height is amazingly tall with huge clearance as you can see in this picture. I didn't even bother to jack it up to replace this Damper. The old one came right off and was literally completely shot. Absolutely 0 resistance whatsoever. I cleaned up the hardware and the new one bolted right up. Should really eat up the play in the steering, don't you think. I thought it pretty cool that this part has remained the same for all the years 55-79 I think with out looking it up again. I saw during a HD factory tour that there are 3 parts on a Harley that were on a 1903 bike that Harley still makes. I think one was a kicker pedal, HaHa. I think its a neat footnote to the Damper fitting all these years. I wonder what other parts are on late Bays that were on early buses?

I had checked the rear breaks and they seemed adjusted ok. I figured the parking break was loose because someone forgot to disengage it and stretched the cables out. I got them to tighten some and will be playing with that more in there weeks to come.

I will say here, that after being up under my bus, there is really no way this stuff rotted out or was replaced if the bus had 32K original miles like I originally thought. Rear shocks replace, break pad star holes bent up from adjustment. I would go ahead and say it's like 132K. Weird how some of the parts and body show absolutely no wear and other parts show quite a bit.

Thats about it for now, Thanks for reading!