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#ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion)
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GuruX
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

furgo wrote:
Ah, nice, ingeniously solved.

How's the fit to the intake runners, though? Does the nozzle end with the O-Ring fit well and airtight without further modifications?

I can see one injector mounted on the foreground of your video, but I can't really tell.

Looks like you've got Bosch's 0 280 156 038 injectors:

http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/en_GB/product-detail/-/product/0280156038

Yeah, that looks like the correct injector. I don't have them close by, as I'm posting this. But the pictures looks like the ones I've got.

The injectors will be pressed against the intake runners, just like the original EV1s. The o-ring hopefully seals properly.

I forgot to mention the hose adapters. I looked at that solution, before I decided to go this route. Are they reliable? I was a bit worried about them staying put and keeping things leak free.

Here are a couple of close up shots of the injector mount, fuel rail and intake mock-up.



Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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furgo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Your supports and fuel rails look solid from the pictures, but I'd still be a bit concerned about how good the seal to the intake runners is. Particularly as the injection end seems to be quite different from the original injectors (at least much shorter, I can't tell whether the diameter is the same, but it looks wider).

I guess the question I would ask myself if I were to do the same would be "what is the reason NOT to use the original injectors?".

I can see some benefits in using more modern injectors, mainly availability and the fact that they've not been used. But you are replacing the originals with newer but yet used (NLA?) injectors that at least in terms of availability are the same. That looks like more work to me for no tangible benefit –unless your goal was experimentation, which is obviously a valid reason too.

Again, please see this as constructive criticism, genuine interest for your project (and for it to succeed!) and food for thought. I guess someone had to ask the uncomfortable questions Smile

In case they help, here are the original specs for the injector mount, measurements and spray pattern. These come from a Bosch leaflet with generic L-Jetronic specs (note our intake runners are curved, unlike those in the diagram)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


GuruX wrote:
I forgot to mention the hose adapters. I looked at that solution, before I decided to go this route. Are they reliable? I was a bit worried about them staying put and keeping things leak free.


Sorry, I can't say much about them other than pointing back to the thread where they were mentioned. Perhaps you can ask the folks in there about their experiences with the adapters?
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GuruX
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

furgo wrote:
Your supports and fuel rails look solid from the pictures, but I'd still be a bit concerned about how good the seal to the intake runners is. Particularly as the injection end seems to be quite different from the original injectors (at least much shorter, I can't tell whether the diameter is the same, but it looks wider).

I guess the question I would ask myself if I were to do the same would be "what is the reason NOT to use the original injectors?".

I can see some benefits in using more modern injectors, mainly availability and the fact that they've not been used. But you are replacing the originals with newer but yet used (NLA?) injectors that at least in terms of availability are the same. That looks like more work to me for no tangible benefit –unless your goal was experimentation, which is obviously a valid reason too.

Again, please see this as constructive criticism, genuine interest for your project (and for it to succeed!) and food for thought. I guess someone had to ask the uncomfortable questions Smile

In case they help, here are the original specs for the injector mount, measurements and spray pattern. These come from a Bosch leaflet with generic L-Jetronic specs (note our intake runners are curved, unlike those in the diagram)


GuruX wrote:
I forgot to mention the hose adapters. I looked at that solution, before I decided to go this route. Are they reliable? I was a bit worried about them staying put and keeping things leak free.


Sorry, I can't say much about them other than pointing back to the thread where they were mentioned. Perhaps you can ask the folks in there about their experiences with the adapters?

Thank you for asking the uncomfortable questions!
A lot of this stuff is new to me, so I look upon it as a quest to learn more. I love constructive criticism!

There are a couple of reasons for me using these injectors. My old EV1 injectors aren't pretty. One of them doesn't move at all. They can be purchased, but even refurbished ones a pretty expensive.
EV1 are low impedance, so they would require a resistor pack to run off the Speeduino. I don't like the idea of trading energy for heat, even if it's a negligible amount.
EV6 injectors are supposed to produce droplets that are better than EV1, leading to better efficiency. This i the main reason for using EV6.
The Alfa injectors are used because I had them laying around. If I find that aren't suitable for my application I can get some other EV6 injector, since there are a lot to choose from. It will require me to make a new fuel map, but that's ok.

I do think that they will seal properly against the intake. The O-rings gets squeezed in a nice way. If not, some Permatex might be enough to seal. I kind of remember that I read somewhere that the EV1 and the EV6 bottom O-rings are the same size. But don't take word for it.

I have not seen that picture before with the spray pattern. That's great! I haven't found data on the angle of my Alfa injectors. So it's pretty much a shot in the dark right now. But if I have to change them later, I would look for something with a 25 degree angle.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Just thought it was time to give you guys a new video.
Here's episode number 3.


Link

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Right now I'm thinking about where to put my lambda/afr bung. The recommendation is between 10 and 2 o clock and 2-3 ft from the exhaust port. But where's 2-3 ft on a boxer exhaust? I'm kind of leaning towards putting it in the tailpipe, after the muffler.

How about another episode of #ecobus?

Link

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

GuruX wrote:
Right now I'm thinking about where to put my lambda/afr bung. The recommendation is between 10 and 2 o clock and 2-3 ft from the exhaust port. But where's 2-3 ft on a boxer exhaust? I'm kind of leaning towards putting it in the tailpipe, after the muffler.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=701542&highlight=oxygen
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GuruX
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

The build is chugging along. Engine is pretty much assembled now and it's almost time to start electrical. Nice! Now I'm into stuff that I know a little more about, than splitting a VW engine.

Why not give you guys a new episode here.

Link


One pf the things I have left is to figure out where to put the O2 sensor. I've pretty much got the muffler that's cut open in this thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653839

So the ideal thing would be to put it in the center of the muffler, where the collector chamber is. An O2 sensor should be mounted between 10 and 2 o'clock.
Is there someone who quickly could check clearance for me? The O2 sensor needs about 80mm/3 3/16". I would like to have it on the front side of the muffler, towards the engine. But if that's not possible I could put it on the rear side of the muffler. The reason I can't do it myself is that the bus is in one location and the engine/exhaust and welder is in another location. A measurement from the top seam to the center of the hole, would be great. Like this:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Here's the next episode! Subscribe if you already haven't Smile

In the real world, I hit a major milestone yesterday! Click the link below to Instagram. Turn your volume down a notch Smile
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmioit2AWj5/?taken-by=ecobusswe


Link

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Progress is starting to happen again!
Right now I'm debating if I need a non return valve for my brake booster vac line.

On the bus with carbs, vacuum is taken from two cylinders. One on each side of the engine. No non-return valve as far as I can see.

On buses with stock FI, vacuum is taken from the plenum, and there is a non return valve. Just left of the A in the picture from Ratwell. Click the link.
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/VacuumHoses/VacuumHoses1.jpg

So, do I need a non return valve? Stock FI buses has got a lot of other things on the same vacuum line. So if that's the reason for the valve, I don't need it. But if the valve is needed to make my brake booster work, I need it.

What do you guys think?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Every car I've ever worked on with vacuum assisted power brakes has a one-way check valve in the line to the servo. You need it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

tristessa wrote:
Every car I've ever worked on with vacuum assisted power brakes has a one-way check valve in the line to the servo. You need it.


Without it, you're breaks with surge with the RPM changes of the engine. The breaks would be extremely difficult to apply smoothly, just downright dangerous most likely.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Yeah, people have said the same things as you guys, on other parts of the internet. So a non return valve is needed.
I guess there is one somewhere in front of the front of the engine tin, from the standard carb setup. I'll crawl under the bus and check.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Cool project. Enjoying the videos. Keep it up!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

So, yesterday I had a nice friday night in the shed.
I recently got a new plenum (from a FI bus type4 engine), since the one I used earlier was for a VW 411 and the throttle valve had the cable coming in from the rear, instead of the front. That would make things hard for me.

I welded up the old connections that I'm not going to use and made a mounting plate for the IAT. It's a Bosch IAT and if I remember it right, it's from a Saab 9-3.

It's not a pretty weld, but I'm still learning. But it seems to do it's job and is airtight. It'll look a little better when I have covered my welds with some paint. Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Despite the project thread being a bit silent, the project is still alive.

Right now I'm thinking about how to route the throttle cable. I have been searching for pictures of the cable routing for a FI type 4 in a late bay.

I think it does exit from the tube in front of the gearbox on the left side. Then it's router above the gearbox an goes through the tin on the left side on the engine. Anyone here with a FI bus that can confirm?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

you can always make your own throttle cable using a Bicycle housing and cable.
fitted and cut to length, the little ferrules crimp on hold quite well.
think that you squeeze bicycle brakes much harder than you push on the throttle spring.
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

Here's another video from the #ecobus channel. In episode 7, I try to fix the tank sender unit.



Link

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

So I'm fiddling around with the throttle cable.
I found this part under the bus. It looks like a cable cover, with the end of a cable stuck in one end. But it might be something different. The bus has got the original gas heater, but unplugged.
Does anyone know what this part is for?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: #ecobus Belinda gets a new heart (and shameless self promotion) Reply with quote

I figured the cable cover out. Looks like it was an old broken heater cable, with on of the pressed on nipples, stuck in the cover. Some drilling took it out. The cover is now used for the throttle wire. I was lucky and found a hole in the beam the gearbox hangs from, just in front of the engine. Accelerator cable ended up perfectly with the throttle body, when ran through this hole. Just had to cut a hole in the front engine tin. Sometimes, things run smooth!

Now on to the next job. The roof swap. Or more like, putting a roof on Belinda. She's just now an involuntary cabriolet.

I have drilled out the spot welds and removed the old rain gutter. The roof skin is also gone. Both these look quite healthy on my donator roof.

It seems like I also need to change from of the frame that goes around the roof. It's marked red in this picture.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The frame is a bit rotten i some places. Like in this photo.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is what the rear of the bus looks like right now. The rear beam will probably need replacing also, it's also a bit rusted.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Is it possible to remove the frame, without hacking up the bus? It looks like it might be bonded to the bus on the inside (toward passenger area) and might be joined by the spot welds on the outside.

My original idea (derived from someone else) was to fit the roof skin and rain gutter from the donator roof, as one piece. But that might not be possible now. I'm not sure I can separate the frame from the donator roof, without disassembling it.
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