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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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84 Vanagon
I checked the horn itself and it doesn't have power.
I checked for continuity in the horn and it has continuity.
I checked fuse 12 and it's fine.
I checked the black/yellow wire coming back out of the fuse to body ground and it has 12 volt.
Pushing the steering wheel horn doesn't make any sound.
When I check between the top and bottom of fuse 12 it has no volts.
The only thing I haven't done is check the contact ring.
Does the stock horn system have a relay I'm missing?
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1984 Vanagon GL |
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Macwesty
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Joined: September 23, 2013
Posts: 109
Location: Chambersburg, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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I just took a quick look at the wiring diagram to confirm what memory was telling me....
The Black/Yellow wire should not be running to ground. It goes to the horn. There should be 12V available at the horn all the time. When you press the horn button you are supplying ground and completing the circuit so that current flows through the horn. In general, I consider Black/Yellow wires to be 12V supply but I always check the wiring diagram to be sure.
The other terminal on the horn should have a brown wire (typically meaning it is a ground wire) which, on my diagram gets switched to a Brown/Blue wire on its way back to the horn button on the steering wheel.
Another thing to keep an eye out for is there is a wire that runs from the horn button down the steering shaft and I believe there is a spade connector on it which gets the ground connection past the rubber donut coupler in the steering shaft. If this is not in place the horn button won't supply ground to the horn circuit and you'll have no horn.
Sounds like you are lacking 12V at the horn but I doubt the Black/Yellow is actually running to ground as you stated or you'd have a burnt fuse or a melted wire since connecting the Black/Yellow wire to ground would be a dead short.
You can find the wiring diagrams here on The Samba under the Technical menu.
Hope this helps.
Scott
'82 Air to Water-cooled conversion
SVX Power!
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'82 Vanagon Westfalia
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wcdennis
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Location: Winston-Salem NC
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| Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| You do know the horn is on a switched circuit? Just covering all the bases. |
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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:20 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| wcdennis wrote: |
| You do know the horn is on a switched circuit? Just covering all the bases. |
I know it goes from power to horn to a ground switch in the steering wheel.
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Team WorldTour
Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2426
Location: Der Vaterland
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:56 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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What he is saying is, the key must be 'on' for the horn to function as well.
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1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:17 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| Team WorldTour wrote: |
| What he is saying is, the key must be 'on' for the horn to function as well. |
Oh yes I know that. I've even tested it with the car running to make sure.
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1984 Vanagon GL |
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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| Macwesty wrote: |
I just took a quick look at the wiring diagram to confirm what memory was telling me....
The Black/Yellow wire should not be running to ground. It goes to the horn. There should be 12V available at the horn all the time. When you press the horn button you are supplying ground and completing the circuit so that current flows through the horn. In general, I consider Black/Yellow wires to be 12V supply but I always check the wiring diagram to be sure.
The other terminal on the horn should have a brown wire (typically meaning it is a ground wire) which, on my diagram gets switched to a Brown/Blue wire on its way back to the horn button on the steering wheel.
Another thing to keep an eye out for is there is a wire that runs from the horn button down the steering shaft and I believe there is a spade connector on it which gets the ground connection past the rubber donut coupler in the steering shaft. If this is not in place the horn button won't supply ground to the horn circuit and you'll have no horn.
Sounds like you are lacking 12V at the horn but I doubt the Black/Yellow is actually running to ground as you stated or you'd have a burnt fuse or a melted wire since connecting the Black/Yellow wire to ground would be a dead short.
You can find the wiring diagrams here on The Samba under the Technical menu.
Hope this helps.
Scott
'82 Air to Water-cooled conversion
SVX Power! |
Thanks for the info. Any reason why the horn isn't getting 12v? From what I understand it should have 12v all the time when the key is in.
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9923
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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The horn gets power from the same place as the backup lights. Are those working?
Mark |
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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:52 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
The horn gets power from the same place as the backup lights. Are those working?
Mark |
I don't think I have backup lights hooked up. On the #12 fuse I only have one wire coming out which is the headlight wire there is one more terminal coming off the fuse but it's empty.
Edit. Sorry I mean horn not headlight
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1984 Vanagon GL
Last edited by rty1138 on Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Texxxxx
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 448
Location: Monterey, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| rty1138 wrote: |
The only thing I haven't done is check the contact ring.
Does the stock horn system have a relay I'm missing? |
If you are referring to the contact ring in the steering wheel, I would hit the dimple on the ring with an emery board and where it contacts. That has been my horn problem in two vans...corrosion.
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9923
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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The steering wheel ring and button only complete a ground connection to make the horn sound. If 12v isn't already at the horn first, completing the ground isn't the problem.
According to the diagrams for 84, one side of fuse 12 has 2 black/yellow wires plugged in. One is for the backup lighst and the other is for the horn.
Do you measure 12v at both sides of fuse #12, with other probe on a ground point? |
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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
The steering wheel ring and button only complete a ground connection to make the horn sound. If 12v isn't already at the horn first, completing the ground isn't the problem.
According to the diagrams for 84, one side of fuse 12 has 2 black/yellow wires plugged in. One is for the backup lighst and the other is for the horn.
Do you measure 12v at both sides of fuse #12, with other probe on a ground point? |
There is only one wire coming out of the fuse, the black and yellow wire and it did give me 12v. Maybe it got cut along the way from a previous owner. Or who knows? The wire going to the horn (if I remember correctly) isn't even black yellow unless someone spliced a different color wire there. I can try to test for continuity.
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wcdennis
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2004
Posts: 955
Location: Winston-Salem NC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| rty1138 wrote: |
| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
The steering wheel ring and button only complete a ground connection to make the horn sound. If 12v isn't already at the horn first, completing the ground isn't the problem.
According to the diagrams for 84, one side of fuse 12 has 2 black/yellow wires plugged in. One is for the backup lighst and the other is for the horn.
Do you measure 12v at both sides of fuse #12, with other probe on a ground point? |
There is only one wire coming out of the fuse, the black and yellow wire and it did give me 12v. Maybe it got cut along the way from a previous owner. Or who knows? The wire going to the horn (if I remember correctly) isn't even black yellow unless someone spliced a different color wire there. I can try to test for continuity. |
Because of exposure to road grime, both wires probably look black. Also, for the same reason, both connectors may be corroded to the point that there is little or no current passing through. If I remember correctly, I had to cut my horn wires back to find clean wire and attach new spade connectors. |
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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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| wcdennis wrote: |
| rty1138 wrote: |
| crazyvwvanman wrote: |
The steering wheel ring and button only complete a ground connection to make the horn sound. If 12v isn't already at the horn first, completing the ground isn't the problem.
According to the diagrams for 84, one side of fuse 12 has 2 black/yellow wires plugged in. One is for the backup lighst and the other is for the horn.
Do you measure 12v at both sides of fuse #12, with other probe on a ground point? |
There is only one wire coming out of the fuse, the black and yellow wire and it did give me 12v. Maybe it got cut along the way from a previous owner. Or who knows? The wire going to the horn (if I remember correctly) isn't even black yellow unless someone spliced a different color wire there. I can try to test for continuity. |
Because of exposure to road grime, both wires probably look black. Also, for the same reason, both connectors may be corroded to the point that there is little or no current passing through. If I remember correctly, I had to cut my horn wires back to find clean wire and attach new spade connectors. |
I'll try it. Maybe I'll wrangle up some 12 v batteries and test that it actually works
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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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Update:
I tested the horn itself and it works just fine.
I took apart the wheel and the contact ring was basically disintegrated. I replaced it.
Tested the horn button and the new contact ring was good.
The ground connection at the bottom of the steering shaft is connected.
BUT the horn still doesn't work and it still isn't receiving the constant 12v it should be while the ingition is on.
The connection on the horn is some brownish colors. Maybe brown/red and brown. It should be black/yellow and brown according to the wiring diagram.
My guess is that somewhere along the line it got cut.
Next task: find out where this brown/red wire is coming from. It goes up behind the headlights and into the dash all inside a rubber tube with some other wires. Any tips on backtracking this wire?
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rty1138
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2018
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Help me diagnose my horn problem please |
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Turns out the PO moved the horn to the driver's side and from what I read it is usually under the passenger side. When I trace the black/yellow wire it goes out the dash and out to the front in the same tubing as the right headlight. And guess what...it's cut. I tested the volts while honking and it works. I relocate the horn and everything works now.
Everything made possible with a multimeter and long leads. And thanks to my GF for honking my horn.
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