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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| Typical samba logic, split hairs, say anything to cast doubt but the fact remains. VW once had a service panel at this location and although I can only assume they did away with it as a cost saving measure. Final question to ponder, how many angels could fit on the head of a pin? 😁 |
I dont think anyone has cast doubt to the fact that there once was an access panel provided on early cars.
I think the access panel was eliminated cause it was of little use, perhaps in part do to the redisign of the transmission oil filler as has been documented on this thread.
Unfortunately some doubt that people can easily remove engine bolt(s) without an access panel, despite millions of Bug having the motor removed without such a panel
Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:15 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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typical samba BS
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked  |
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Zundfolge1432 
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| 60ragtop wrote: |
| typical samba BS |
X 2. The OP asked a simple question and he got the usual ideas from non mechanics who probably couldn’t find their own ass with both hands. 😂 |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| typical samba BS |
X 2. The OP asked a simple question and he got the usual ideas from non mechanics who probably couldn’t find their own ass with both hands. 😂 |
what are the usual ideas, and who are the non mechanics here you refer to?
Bug On while finding my ass.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4091
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| Typical samba logic, split hairs, say anything to cast doubt but the fact remains. VW once had a service panel at this location and although I can only assume they did away with it as a cost saving measure. Final question to ponder, how many angels could fit on the head of a pin? 😁 |
Nobody is debating that there was an access plate on early cars. The were pretty small and of limited benefit. They were not the entire floor of the luggage area and they weren't held in by wood and wood screws.
They did away with the small access plate around the same time that they changed the transmission case so the transmission fluid was added by a hole in the side of the case as opposed to a much larger plug that faced upward. This rendered the access hole more or less obsolete. At least for that use. On top that, having to remove the carpet to get to the panel made it very inconvenient to utilize. It probably didn't get used very much for that reason alone.
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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splitjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 4091
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| typical samba BS |
X 2. The OP asked a simple question and he got the usual ideas from non mechanics who probably couldn’t find their own ass with both hands. 😂 |
Care to clarify which "usual ideas" you are referring to?
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Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12848
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| splitjunkie wrote: |
| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
| 60ragtop wrote: |
| typical samba BS |
X 2. The OP asked a simple question and he got the usual ideas from non mechanics who probably couldn’t find their own ass with both hands. 😂 |
Care to clarify which "usual ideas" you are referring to? |
It obviously isn't the one that leads to one cutting the floor out of the package shelf because a bolt that has to be accessed once every few years can't be gotten to with an open end wrench with minimal effort. 
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| Wayne S. Johnson wrote: |
| I want to cut an access hole over my 66 Beetle 1600 engine upper left mounting bolt and starter. Tomorrow I will look a 73 Beetle to cut out an over lapping cover plate. Is the metal in this area the same shape in 66 and 73? |
Perhaps you will show or explain which tools you are using, and technique which is causing so much problems for you? I am sure recommendations can be made based on what you have been doing on technique and or tools that will make this job easy for you without the need to cut the body.
Many of us evidently have had little problem with this, but it comes down to tools and technique. I am pretty sure the first time I did this I was frustrated, but once it was learned how to do it, it is no longer an issue. I dont give access a second thought now. kind of like the first time riding a bike, maybe a bit difficult at first, but once you master it, it will be second nature and you wont give it a second thought.
Anyway let us know more specifically the problem you are having, we can likely walk you thru it.
Keep a Buggin!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34003
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Yeah, a box end wrench wedged on the nut above, and a long ratchet extension below, did it for me. Very cramped underneath near the bolt head, but further "forward" around the axle shaft, I could find an extension combo that made for a good leverage and a decent handle swing.
About the only finesse I used is that once the bolt is broken loose, I held the extension and keep counter-clockwise torque on it, even as I clicked the ratchet clockwise for the next swing, so ensure the box end wrench on top doesn't jiggle loose. |
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iowa vw
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2006
Posts: 588
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90036
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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I have removed dozens of engines without having an access hole in the luggage area, definitely not needed to do that. If someone is wanting a hole solely for that purpose then they need to reconsider doing mechanical work themselves.
splitjunkie - Not sure why you think a cover would be held in with wood and wood screws, that is a hack job and wood should not be used anywhere in a VW that is structural. What I did is a large hole but there is a 1 inch square tube structure welded under the tray that the cover bolts to.
The purpose of the hole is not for regular everyday maintenance. I am relocating the battery and mounting the cooler and filter in that area, adding midmount and truss bar so I want/need better access. Welded in brackets and frame modifications are NOT going to hurt the structural integrity of the area and will not even be noticeable once the carpet is laid down. Simply roll up the carpet, remove some bolts and I have access in 5 minutes if needed.
Need to change the starter, change tranny oil, swap battery, etc. Then just pull the cover and done. I'm not saying this is needed or everyone should do this but it works for my application and this is not a hack job. Your bug your project. How about some constructive conversation rather than destructive? |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| iowa vw wrote: |
I have removed dozens of engines without having an access hole in the luggage area, definitely not needed to do that. If someone is wanting a hole solely for that purpose then they need to reconsider doing mechanical work themselves.
splitjunkie - Not sure why you think a cover would be held in with wood and wood screws, that is a hack job and wood should not be used anywhere in a VW that is structural. What I did is a large hole but there is a 1 inch square tube structure welded under the tray that the cover bolts to.
The purpose of the hole is not for regular everyday maintenance. I am relocating the battery and mounting the cooler and filter in that area, adding midmount and truss bar so I want/need better access. Welded in brackets and frame modifications are NOT going to hurt the structural integrity of the area and will not even be noticeable once the carpet is laid down. Simply roll up the carpet, remove some bolts and I have access in 5 minutes if needed.
Need to change the starter, change tranny oil, swap battery, etc. Then just pull the cover and done. I'm not saying this is needed or everyone should do this but it works for my application and this is not a hack job. Your bug your project. How about some constructive conversation rather than destructive? |
Early on in this thread someone did post a rather huge access hole photograph, apparently framed with lumber.
Any way, your Bug sounds interesting, lots of modifications, What have you made? What else have you done to your Bug? Photographs please! An access hole can make very good sense in modified cars. Access holes for dual Weber carbs are pretty much needed if you want to tune them, and short or removing a carb, only way to get at some spark plugs.
I agree, for general maintenance on a stockish Bug, an access hole is not needed at all, and for the effort to install it, there is little payback, how often is the motor going to be pulled, once every many years?
Once the right techniques and tools are learned, you will find it easy. Accessing the access hole may not be easy (ie, tilt seat out of way, remove items kept in luggage area, lift up carpet, lift sound matt, unbolt cover, then reverse these tasks upon finish, plus clean up greasy hand prints off upholstery, and shoe mark off of seat back.), ..... It may take more time than removing the offending engine bolt without using an access cover. Yes, once the technique and tools are learned, it is that easy
Mr. Wayne Johnson...., Please let us know what tools and technique are giving you problems. We will chime in with easy solutions for your Bug problem. I think we can come up with a no cut solution you will be happy with.
Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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easy solution is to let it go. He wants an access hole and wants to know if a 73 panel will fit. I think all this is answered to most
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
| maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Wayne S. Johnson
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Thanks to everyone for the ideas.
I installed my new 1600 with AS41 cases a few weeks ago. The case had an insert in the upper left location, which required the bolt to be installed from under the car. I tryed a 7" ratchet which did not work, then I used an open wrench. With the limited space, only open end would work. After each 1/8 turn I had to flip the wrench, at the end I could not get leverage to get the bolt very tight. The starter bolt nut was another problem, it slid forward everything I tried to get the nut started. I put some tape on the bolt and jammed it in the hole, which worked well. I have rebuilt VW engines, V8 engines, tractor engines, designed and built an electric 68 Beetle. I can install and remove this bolt, but I like to make things easy to work on.
The donor 73 is totaled and the side will be cut off to make a chicken coop door. If I don't cut hole in the floor it will go to the scrap yard. The car is on gravel so it would be much easier to remove the bolt form an access hole. The owner is giving me the engine. I may or may not cut an access hole in my 66, but at least I will have a floor panel to use. I would make the panel larger than the hole to seal the overlap and install screws. I would not make a hole larger than about 8" x 10". Maybe one over the starter also.
My Electric Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=458961
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| Wayne S. Johnson wrote: |
| The case had an insert in the upper left location, which required the bolt to be installed from under the car. I tryed a 7" ratchet which did not work |
Need LONGER extensions on your socket !!! Maybe like an 18" connected to a 12" or 6" !!!
And OK if you need to grind a socket narrower, we won't tell.
I estimate about 100 VW engine R&Rs for me....
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| 60ragtop wrote: |
| easy solution is to let it go. He wants an access hole and wants to know if a 73 panel will fit. I think all this is answered to most |
But that’s crazy talk. He must be made to comply!!!
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Zundfolge1432
Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12467
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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Let’s shoot for at least 4 pages ok?😁 I’m thinking cut maybe two holes now.
Here’s what I know without question, we cannot arrive at final solution until Mark Tucker has weighed in. |
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60ragtop
Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006
Posts: 7800
Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| Sharp64 wrote: |
| But that’s crazy talk. He must be made to comply!!! |
_________________
Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
| tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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| sb001 wrote: |
| maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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| Zundfolge1432 wrote: |
Hearz wut I now witout kwestchun, wee kanut arriv at final solushunn untill Mark Tucker has wheyed in. |
Fixed it for you.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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Murdlem
Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2004
Posts: 512
Location: Port Angeles, Washington
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Access hole to reach the top engine bolt and starter. |
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I don't think I could cut a hole in my car.
But the idea of having the access there for various reasons sure sounds good to me. Wish VW had installed a stock one in my 66.....
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Eric Meldrum
68 Ghia
Check out my blog. https://vwlifenet.wordpress.com/ |
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Wayne S. Johnson
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: GILROY, CA
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