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jeffrey8164 
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3819
Location: Georgia
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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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I had a filter pump that ate my cam gear. Took a while though.
Rebuilding to a 2276 and am wondering if either the full flow or the in/out oil pump setups fit behind the stock pulley and pulley tin. I’m also wondering if the stock doghouse oil cooler will suffice.
It’ll be a weekender with not much long term stress just a burnout there and again. |
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mcmscott
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Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4858
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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An oil pump cannot "eat" your cam gear, even if it was hungry. Please explain just a touch better.
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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On Dual relief cases, I run the full flow with 3/8" Pipe fittings to 1/2" lines to the remote filter. On Single relief pretty much stock I would use a filter pump or an in-out with it's 1/4" Pipe Fittings. Just depends on how the oil pressure would be on your engine. If the filter pump doesn't support enough oil pressure for your engine then you would be better off doing it full flow.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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Full flow the case. Cb 26mm oil pump. Put a filter between out of pump to in of case. You will need to dimple the front pulley tin to clear the new oil fitting. Fitting is a brass 3/8npt street elbow that you grind down.
Dog house oil cooler with flaps and all the tins. You need air to cool the engine, so four louvered deck lid or prop it open.
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Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
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Danwvw
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Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| mcmscott wrote: |
| An oil pump cannot "eat" your cam gear, even if it was hungry. Please explain just a touch better. |
Well not directly but what if it is too long on the tang and is pushing the cam into a bad position.
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mcmscott
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Joined: March 12, 2010
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Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| An oil pump cannot "eat" your cam gear, even if it was hungry. Please explain just a touch better. |
Well not directly but what if it is too long on the tang and is pushing the cam into a bad position. |
Then whoever built the engine in the first place had no clue, and if that is the case there are many more problems to come, thanks for pointing that out(the obvious).
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4858
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| mcmscott wrote: |
| Danwvw wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| An oil pump cannot "eat" your cam gear, even if it was hungry. Please explain just a touch better. |
Well not directly but what if it is too long on the tang and is pushing the cam into a bad position. |
Then whoever built the engine in the first place had no clue, and if that is the case there are many more problems to come, thanks for pointing that out(the obvious). |
Even still, a long oil pump tang cannot affect a cam gear in any way
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
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67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9967
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| mcmscott wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| Danwvw wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| An oil pump cannot "eat" your cam gear, even if it was hungry. Please explain just a touch better. |
Well not directly but what if it is too long on the tang and is pushing the cam into a bad position. |
Then whoever built the engine in the first place had no clue, and if that is the case there are many more problems to come, thanks for pointing that out(the obvious). |
Even still, a long oil pump tang cannot affect a cam gear in any way |
What if you used a dished cam oil pump with a flat geared pump, and you forced it.
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mcmscott
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4858
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| VW_Jimbo wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| Danwvw wrote: |
| mcmscott wrote: |
| An oil pump cannot "eat" your cam gear, even if it was hungry. Please explain just a touch better. |
Well not directly but what if it is too long on the tang and is pushing the cam into a bad position. |
Then whoever built the engine in the first place had no clue, and if that is the case there are many more problems to come, thanks for pointing that out(the obvious). |
Even still, a long oil pump tang cannot affect a cam gear in any way |
What if you used a dished cam oil pump with a flat geared pump, and you
forced it. |
Wouldn't get anywhere near the gear, might hurt the cam thrust bearing, but one would have to be a total dumbass to install an oil pump that way and not see a problem. The gear would protrude almost 1/4 inch out!
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
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Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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I had the pleasure of fixing that a few times. Young, wannabe mechanics, working on their cars, that dont know shit. Believe me, they can make it fit!
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:23 am Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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Cb's 26mm in/out oil pump and the billet cover they have for it looks GOOD.
I don't like the standard in/out cover, it's just a little too small and flimsy for a high performance engine IMO |
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jeffrey8164
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Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3819
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| mcmscott wrote: |
| An oil pump cannot "eat" your cam gear, even if it was hungry. Please explain just a touch better. |
Oil pump gear.
Actually not the cam gear but the cam groove itself.
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Danwvw
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Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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This one is not set deep enough. Another factor is the weight of the motor oil. Heavy oil will wear the tang and cam slot more than lightweight oil because it's so much harder to turn the pump with heavy motor oils. The above engine was very close to losing it's oil pump pressure and polluting the oil with Iron filings.
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jeffrey8164
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Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3819
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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10/40 oil but to be fair I've used that pump and cam in many motor incarnations for probably too many years. And yes the motor was about to seize. When I pulled it apart all the main bearings except the rear were tight.
While running you could hear the gear hammering away. |
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modok
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Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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you should check if the oil pump drive was IN LINE with the cam.
If it is off-center it will do this. |
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mcmscott
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Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4858
Location: sanger ca
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| This one is not set deep enough. Another factor is the weight of the motor oil. Heavy oil will wear the tang and cam slot more than lightweight oil because it's so much harder to turn the pump with heavy motor oils. The above engine was very close to losing it's oil pump pressure and polluting the oil with Iron filings. |
Heavy oil,, let me think about this,,, Hmmmm, A 2 stage dry sump pump with a mechanical fuel pump drive using 60 wt. oil does not have this problem, even after years of abuse, But if you use 20/50 with a basic 26mm pump you will shear the drive tang?
Kinda having a hard time grasping the logic,,, Please explain.
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3819
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| modok wrote: |
you should check if the oil pump drive was IN LINE with the cam.
If it is off-center it will do this. |
Moot point. New 2276 engine being built with all new components. |
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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New things are just as prone to problems as old things.
I check every oil pump now. |
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VW_Jimbo
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Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 9967
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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Check the gear engagement everytime. I have found several incorrect.
Good luck on the new build!
_________________
Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
| TDCTDI wrote: |
| Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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| Back to top |
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jeffrey8164
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018
Posts: 3819
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Full flow or in/out oil pump? |
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| modok wrote: |
New things are just as prone to problems as old things.
I check every oil pump now. |
I know, I know, believe me, I know.
It’s not 1994 anymore. Everything is suspect.
I’ll add it to the mock-up list along with deck height and rocker geometry.
Aside from eyeballing it, are there any specific measurements and techniques you can make me aware of? |
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