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digg75
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:09 am Post subject: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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Tried to start up my -74 1303 today after light resto.
Havent started the car for 3 months. Last time it ran it started up perfect.
Today, nothing. Cranked several times for some time without any sign of starting. What i discovered is that it starts to drip fuel, and what it looks like from cylinder 1 and from between the cylinder and cyl.head.
Why is this happening? Have seen it once Before when it was hard to get started. After that i replaced all ignitionparts and it ran ok without leakage.
Also noticed that the ignitioncoil get really hot. Wight be the cause why is`t not starting.
But, the leakage. due to flooding? Any ideas anyone? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51130
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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A combination of faulty parts (usually aftermarket) can result in gravity feeding fuel past the needle and seat in the carb and filling the engine with fuel. Drain the oil and remove all the spark plugs to air it out before continuing (put fresh oil in of course).
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digg75
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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I have an idea if the leakage is due to the original gasket at the cylinderbase is "dissolved"/broken.
Going to do a comp test Before attempting to tighten the cylinder bolts.
Then do comp.test again after. |
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vwoldbug
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 1214
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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| What carb and what engine . Have you checked for spark at the plugs . |
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digg75
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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Engine 1600AS
Carb 34 Pict-3
New plugs and had spark Before and ran ok. |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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If you got gasoline dripping, it is a major fire issue, do not start the car.
Gasoline dripping from between the head and cylinder could be....
leak in fuel supply pipe or hose, located above 3 cylinder thru the front tin and running out of engine bay above left rear axle to chassis. check the hose, clamp and the metal,pipe, make sure no abrasion has happened, make sure pipe thru the front tin into engine bay is protected with grommet, check inside engine bay the end of this pipe and the hose up to pump. then hose from pump to carb. Check pump base and top. check carb.
Any leaks in the above could allow gasoline to travel to the 1 cylinder area view gravity.
If you can still not locate leak, maybe it only leaks under pressure, if gas is not collected, or dripping, all pooled gasoline removed, with a helper watching, and fjre extingusher in hand, Bug parked outside in safe spot, start engine and check again all these spots for leak while under pressure.
If carb is flooding the motor, then you would see an elevated oil level, and gasoline in the sump. a leaking fuel pump diaphragm will also allow gasoline into the crank case.
Since checking the dip stick for gasoline is so easy to do, make that your first diagnostic action.
!et us know what you find.
and while you are at it with gasoline leaks, please see link below on engine fires and safety wires
Good Luck, Keep a Buggin!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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lacolin
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2017
Posts: 85
Location: Westlake Village, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:39 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| A combination of faulty parts (usually aftermarket) can result in gravity feeding fuel past the needle and seat in the carb and filling the engine with fuel. Drain the oil and remove all the spark plugs to air it out before continuing (put fresh oil in of course). |
I have a very steep driveway and gas has/will leak into the crankcase when the tank is more than half full. What is the faulty part and how do I prevent this from happening?
To remedy, I have been parking the car nose downhill now... except if it sits for while it wont start without putting a little gas in the carb. Thats a lot easier than draining the oil!
Colin |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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| lacolin wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
| A combination of faulty parts (usually aftermarket) can result in gravity feeding fuel past the needle and seat in the carb and filling the engine with fuel. Drain the oil and remove all the spark plugs to air it out before continuing (put fresh oil in of course). |
I have a very steep driveway and gas has/will leak into the crankcase when the tank is more than half full. What is the faulty part and how do I prevent this from happening?
To remedy, I have been parking the car nose downhill now... except if it sits for while it wont start without putting a little gas in the carb. Thats a lot easier than draining the oil!
Colin |
Simular happened in my old 58 Bug. a flooded float chamber is often the result of either or both...
1). Heavy float, a float that has leaked gasoline into it. the float may appear fine, you may not hear fuel sloshing inside of it. the best test is to heat a pot of water on the stove to just below boiling, as if it boils, it makes it hard to see the results, but you want the water really hot. then sink the float under the water, use tongs or simular to push the float till completely submerged, keep it down for at least a minute, and observe if bubbles come out of the float, if so the float is shot, get a new one.
2). a leaky float valve. the valve can leak do to wear, damage, dirt, or maladjustment ie wrong thickness of gaskets under it. the float could also be loose in the carb. the manual tells how to test the valve, basically you try to blow thru it with light finger pressure trying to seal it. sometimes you simply replace with a new one, as a leak maybe very small and hard to detect.
besure to follow the manual proceedure when installing a float or float valve. you may need to bend the float tab, alter washer thickness under valve, or even change carb top gasket thickness. these all effect the pressure at which the valve seals, and hence the fuel height in the bowl. Note many parts these days are not exactly the same as original, so you may need to change gasket thicknesses a good deal to get correct results. before setting fuel level in bowl, the fuel pressure should be checked to assure it is correct. wrong pressure from pump can cause the valve to fail, but that would be under operation, not when parked with engine off. fuel pressure is adjusted by the gasket stack thickness under the pump.
so check your float and valve. On my 58 I had a gallon of gasoline in the sump, the culprit was a sunked float, while parked on a hill.
Bug On!
PS while youre at it on the carb and pump, why not add an important fire safety feature all classic Bugs need? See link below on engine fjres and safety wires. My VW nearly burnt to the ground cause of this detail.
check these two items. replace as needed.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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digg75
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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@bluebus86
I`ve checked for more leaks today. Top of Engine is dry, no leaks at all from the fuelline.
The fueldrip i can se comes from no 1 cylinder, or from between top of the cyl/head. I`ll try to tighten the cyl.bolts.
Guess i have to tear out the engine to get it done.
At the same time IŽll probably take a look at the carb as well. Have a resto.kit on the shelf, why not use it. |
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jlex
Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2009
Posts: 2902
Location: NW Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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Bluebus86 is right on with his advice.... your car is probably sitting with the nose pointing up, and the pressure of the fuel is overcoming the needle and seat in the carburetor. Happened to me. Don't bother tearing the engine apart or tightening the cylinder... that's not the problem. Put in fresh oil, then sit the car level and see if its okay.
I remember a post on this forum that said it's a common problem with beetles... there is a valve the poster showed a picture of that's supposed to eliminate the problem, but its no longer available. I always intended to track that valve down, but never did so. Looked like a round EGR valve that was installed on the gas line... There are modern shutoff valves that are wired into the electrical system that can also stop gas flow... can be really useful in the event of an accident. Someone may chime in with a link to such an electrically controlled gas valve.
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jlex.
'70 std. "Elsie"
'88 Carrera |
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bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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| digg75 wrote: |
@bluebus86
I`ve checked for more leaks today. Top of Engine is dry, no leaks at all from the fuelline.
The fueldrip i can se comes from no 1 cylinder, or from between top of the cyl/head. I`ll try to tighten the cyl.bolts.
Guess i have to tear out the engine to get it done.
At the same time IŽll probably take a look at the carb as well. Have a resto.kit on the shelf, why not use it. |
unburnt fuel should not come from inside the motor to out the cylinder to head seal unless two things are wrong.
1... the carb is allowing fuel to enter the cylinder do to a leak in the carb float valve.
and....
2... you have a compression leak in the cylinder at the head to cylinder joint.
If number 2 is happening, a simple compression test should reveal it.
If you do find a compression leak, use care in tightening the head, follow head tightening proceedure you dont want unevenly torqued head bolts.
If you fix a compression leak, you still have the issue of fuel getting into the motor from a defect in the carb.
Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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digg75
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2017
Posts: 105
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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Summary
Made a comp test.
Cyl 1: 8,2
Cyl 2: 9
Cyl 3: 9
Cyl 4: 9,5
Ripped out the Engine this weekend.
Tightened all cylinder bolts. 3 out of 4 at no 1 cyl were quite loose.
They are now ok. At the same time i discovered tha one of the bolts that attaches to the flywheel was brroken. swapped that one and tightened.
Everything tightened by the book.
The carburator was reconditioned and i swapped gaskets and fuelvalve.
Changed ignition parts and oil.
Result:
No fuel leakage from cyl 1.
No "hissing" sound from the Engine And much higher comp than Before when turning it. |
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lacolin
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2017
Posts: 85
Location: Westlake Village, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Fuel leakage due to flooding? |
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Bluebus86,
Thank you for the information and the tips. My car came with a cheap Chinese knockoff Pict 28 carb. There is not one identifiying mark on it! The carb was new when I got the car and the fuel stem came right out when I was changing the rubber fuel line. I glued it back in and I have a safety wire on it, but the link you showed me is a better method of keeping it secure. I bought a set of Dellorto 36's and am going to replace the current carb.
Thanks again,
Colin |
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