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Mr. Okrasa Original Old Speed
Joined: May 20, 2000 Posts: 726 Location: Eastside, Costa Mesa. So. Califas...Loco's ;-)
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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OK....I'm jumping in here............
The later, 1958 on up had their large (6) 10mm through bolts, where the washers sit, spot faced. See photo below:
Big_E_Deluxe wrote: |
Rome wrote: |
Such clean work on the engine and tins!
Did Joe machine (spot-face) the right case perimeter to fit large-head M8 nuts and thick washers, like the GeneBerg modification on later cases? |
Sorry Rome, I don't know the answer to this question. Hoping Joe will jump on here at some point and answer some of these questions. It's funny how much I've learned during the engine build process, but still don't know the half of it. |
_________________
See my Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/okrasa/
1959 VW Karmann Ghia Coupe / Bamboo-Green / Denzel 1300cc / OG. owner, paint
Denzel engine running. See this link: https://youtu.be/DgUlsQDTXTE
VW www.Okrasa.com
356 www.PreA356.com |
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JeeWee Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2011 Posts: 120 Location: Garijp, the Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:50 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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wow this is a very nice car, well done! I love the tire choice as well, is it 165 of 155?
and what is the thought behind drilling the drums, is it for cooling or weight saving? Or something else I don't know of yet...
And I am also very curious after the dyno results, will you get it on a dyno for final fine tuning and a hp reading? _________________ 1192CC WW okrasa
48,2 DIN PS (58SAE HP)@4430rpm - 83Nm@3610rpm |
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Slow 1200 Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004 Posts: 2105
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:43 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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sweet ride, congratulations! |
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Big_E_Deluxe Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013 Posts: 264 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:39 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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JeeWee wrote: |
wow this is a very nice car, well done! I love the tire choice as well, is it 165 of 155?
and what is the thought behind drilling the drums, is it for cooling or weight saving? Or something else I don't know of yet...
And I am also very curious after the dyno results, will you get it on a dyno for final fine tuning and a hp reading? |
Thank you! I have 165's in the front and 185's in the rear. So far no rubbing. Will need to do more driving to confirm.
Drilled drums are for cooling and to let water escape, that's the theory. I'm sure we could create another thread just on this topic, regarding pros & cons. The rears that I bought were already drilled, so I had the fronts drilled by to match. Front & rear drums were re-lined and drilled by specialist. The beetle is a driver, not a race car, so I probably won't see any big differences, just wanted to stay consistent front to rear. We will see if it was a good decision or not.
Never thought of doing a dyno. It would be interesting to see. Especially since I plan to change the carb setup in the future. It would be nice to see what gains were made over this current setup. _________________ Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S |
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JeeWee Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2011 Posts: 120 Location: Garijp, the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:09 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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cool tire choice! Have thought of that as well, but today I'll pick up my new vredestein sprint classic's 155R15 front and 165R15 rear. 185R15 dimension was a bit too much for the splitcase gearbox ('56 oval), especially 4th gear, it lowers the rpm on the freeway which is lowering as well the cooling.
regarding the dyno, I do it to get the jetting right. I believe most tuned motors are considered as not reliable because they break down due to incorrect jetting. For sure there is more when it comes to tuned engines, but the right mixture is crucial. After putting a lot of money in such an engine, you want to know the result, isn't it?
I have dyno'd my car last year with the WW 32PBIC kit, now putting zenith 32NDIX on it, see how much it will increase, I do not expect big numbers, maybe 4hp.
Keep up posting your findings and modifications! _________________ 1192CC WW okrasa
48,2 DIN PS (58SAE HP)@4430rpm - 83Nm@3610rpm |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9640 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Quote: |
The later, 1958 on up had their large (6) 10mm through bolts, where the washers sit, spot faced |
Thanks, Mr. O. I was actually wondering about the 8mm nuts along the case perimeter. The nuts look like the large, 15mm wrench size ones that GeneBerg sells for his later case modifications in which his shop spot-faces the contact area around the case perimeter to make room for the larger nuts. |
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Brian Mathe Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2004 Posts: 168 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Very nice build. Do you mind sharing the amount of drop on the front spindles and if you lowered the rear end please? I really like the stance you have. Aggressive, yet very drivable. I like it. Thanks _________________ 59 Kombi
66 Porsche 912
50 split-window |
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Big_E_Deluxe Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013 Posts: 264 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:03 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Brian Mathe wrote: |
Very nice build. Do you mind sharing the amount of drop on the front spindles and if you lowered the rear end please? I really like the stance you have. Aggressive, yet very drivable. I like it. Thanks |
Brian, Thank you!
We used CB Performance 2.5" dropped spindles up front. This is the only adjustment we made to the front ride height. The rear was lowered by one outer spline. The tires (front 165/rear 185) share the same outer diameter, so no change in stance from front to rear caused by tires. Beetle has a very slight rake, but once you're sitting in the car it levels out. This was the goal.
_________________ Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S |
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joe h. Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005 Posts: 782 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Big_E_Deluxe Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013 Posts: 264 Location: Charlotte, NC
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motofly196 Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Both very beautiful cars! Joe, I see you are listed as being in Seattle. Will you have your oval at Seattle Vintage Meet this year? I don't venture out of the swap meet area too often, but I'd love to get some photos of your car!! |
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joe h. Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005 Posts: 782 Location: Seattle, Wa
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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motofly196 wrote: |
Both very beautiful cars! Joe, I see you are listed as being in Seattle. Will you have your oval at Seattle Vintage Meet this year? I don't venture out of the swap meet area too often, but I'd love to get some photos of your car!! |
Not this year. I had a unfortunate learning experience trying to install a NOS
headliner. _________________ http://www.cascadekombis.org/vintage-meet |
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motofly196 Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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That's too bad about the headliner, blame it on shrinkage from being on a shelf all these years! I'd love to get a look at your car, Big E lives too far away to see his car at a show. Both of your cars have an awesome look that I'm after with my 56' ragtop. Both look very well done, and not littered with a bunch of "non-speed" items. |
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Big_E_Deluxe Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013 Posts: 264 Location: Charlotte, NC
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motofly196 Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2008 Posts: 1467 Location: Eastern WA
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:14 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Now that you've driven it a little bit, how do you like how it handles? Any rubbing with tires that big up front?
It is an extremely well done car! |
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Big_E_Deluxe Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013 Posts: 264 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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motofly196 wrote: |
Now that you've driven it a little bit, how do you like how it handles? Any rubbing with tires that big up front?
It is an extremely well done car! |
It handles very well, steering is tight, no wandering. Front end was aligned & wheels balanced, smooth results. Ride quality is excellent, nothing harsh about it. Koni Classics are set to softest setting, may want to mess with this a little to see if there is an improvement to be had. Plenty of ground clearance too. There is some rubbing at slow, full turn, right side only. Passenger side front fender outer lip sits a little lower than the driver side. Beetle is level, must be a replacement fender. I wish I had about 1/4" to 1/2" of increase in height, then it would not be an issue. Not sure how I can achieve this. Adjustable beam is at its highest "stock" position. Dropped spindles have set the height.
Engine power is a big improvement over the stock 36hp. It pulls nicely thru all gears, without hesitation. Monkey Nut VW spent a lot of time getting these carbs dialed in. No hesitation, no stalling, just smooth power. I'm positive that having Joe Ruiz rebuild these carbs right out of the box had a lot to do with it too. The WW Okrasa kit is not ready to go out of the box. Manifolds needed to be resurfaced for a flat mounting surface too. It's no longer scary to pullout into traffic. I was actually passing cars for a change. You can never have enough power, but this engine just feels right for this beetle. Exhaust is loud, but it sounds really great, perfect for this look and experience! The sound at idle is the best. 60 mph is roughly 2500 rpm with stock split case trans. Feels like I could cruise all day long. Oil temp has been around 194 F in 95+ heat, no matter how I drive it.
Brakes work really well, smooth feedback at pedal, not a sound or vibration. Haven't even come close to using their full potential. Again, Monkey Nut VW has them dialed in, no pull when brakes are applied, straight and confident.
Real happy with how everything turned out. Just need to dial in the front ride height. _________________ Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S |
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JeeWee Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2011 Posts: 120 Location: Garijp, the Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:39 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Big_E_Deluxe wrote: |
The tires (front 165/rear 185) share the same outer diameter, so no change in stance from front to rear caused by tires. Beetle has a very slight rake, but once you're sitting in the car it levels out. This was the goal. |
I am still a big fan of the stance and tire choice (and the rest of the car), but looking closely at the pictures and your writing, could it be that you run the 185/70R15 tires in the rear instead of 185/80R15? And when I am right, you don't have an adjustable beam to go a bit higher in the front? _________________ 1192CC WW okrasa
48,2 DIN PS (58SAE HP)@4430rpm - 83Nm@3610rpm |
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Big_E_Deluxe Samba Member
Joined: September 23, 2013 Posts: 264 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:52 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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JeeWee wrote: |
Big_E_Deluxe wrote: |
The tires (front 165/rear 185) share the same outer diameter, so no change in stance from front to rear caused by tires. Beetle has a very slight rake, but once you're sitting in the car it levels out. This was the goal. |
I am still a big fan of the stance and tire choice (and the rest of the car), but looking closely at the pictures and your writing, could it be that you run the 185/70R15 tires in the rear instead of 185/80R15? And when I am right, you don't have an adjustable beam to go a bit higher in the front? |
The rears are currently 185/70VR15, not 80. Pirelli only makes 3 sizes of this tire for a 15" wheel. I did some more research and have determined that the 185/70's are shorter than the 165's I'm using up front. I will gain an additional 1/4" of clearance at the fender by using the 185's. Doesn't seem like much but that's all I need. I've tried the 185's up front and I think it will solve most of the full turn issues, no rubbing. Yes, they are a little wider, but not by much. Hard to tell the difference in appearance. I would also think that the wider tire upfront will improve braking and handling as well. _________________ Erik
1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel (sold): https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
2014 Porsche 991.1 Carrera S |
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txoval Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 3553 Location: The Woodlands, TX
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Great looking car and motor.
If you ever get the urge for a little more power, I highly recommend going to a set of dual 36DRLAs with Ray's manifolds.
When I switched to 36IDF's it made a huge difference...if I do it again, I'll go DRLA's over IDFs...more progression holes for smoother throttle
You can check out my photos for pics |
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gimmesomeshelter Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2004 Posts: 1466 Location: San Carlos, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build |
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Txoval-
OT alert.
“I highly recommend going to a set of…Ray's manifolds…it made a huge difference”
Hmmm. Why do you think the Webers made such big difference? Manifold? WW repro carbs aren't very good?
Cheers,
Paul _________________ "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned."
Richard Feynman |
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