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1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch
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Botnu73
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

My turn signals seem to work fine, except they don't cancel. Do I need a new switch? Could it just be dirty? Suggestions?
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60ragtop
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

pull off the steering wheel and see if the spring clip on the right is still there. the tabs usually break off and it unhooks

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Rick
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tasb wrote:
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.


sb001 wrote:
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked Wink
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Botnu73
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

Since I'm not a mechanic, if the tabs are broken off, do I need a new switch/handle?
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Chris333
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-TURN-SIGNAL-SWI...0005.m1851
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60ragtop
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

If you can live with it not self cancelling and everything else works then no. And if you do want to replace it try and source an original German switch. The aftermarket are not that good.
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Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
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Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986

tasb wrote:
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.


sb001 wrote:
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked Wink
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cletus_zuber
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

60ragtop wrote:
live with it

The aftermarket are not that good.


In 33 years of owning various Bugs, I've never had one that actually cancelled.

I've never replaced a switch.
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Chris333
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

Is there a write up anywhere on testing and/or repairing stock turn signal switches?
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Botnu73
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

I bought the car new. The only time it wasn't in my possession was when my son drove it thru hs and college. The cancelling always worked. Unfortunately, I quit driving it about ten years ago and let it sit. 🙄 Now, that I'm driving it again, the cancelling doesn't work. It's still the original switch. Gonna get it checked out tomorrow. Maybe the clip is loose/off. 🤞🏻
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BUGGED11111
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

Could be dirty, could also be the 4 mounting screws need to be tweeked. If they are too tight or loose it can cause an issue with the canceling.
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

Just so you understand HOW the turn signal cancel mechanism works...

When you move the turn signal lever into the L or R position, a small lever extended into the opening around the steering shaft. Just to the left of the W-spring. You can see the small lever sticking out in this pic:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


On the underside of the stock steering wheel you should see the contact ring with a large tab sticking out. This tab will "trip" the small lever as the wheel is rotated back to center; resulting in the turn signal arm auto-canceling.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The W-spring and this small lever are part of the self-canceling mechanism. If your steering wheel has a damaged (or missing) canceling tab it will not be able to trip the small white lever. Also, if the steering wheel is held too far from the turn signal assembly the large tab will not engage the lever and you will not have self-cancel.

You can test the self cancel buy just moving the turn signal arm into the L or R position and with a small screwdriver flick the small white lever up/down and make sure the signal arm self-centers. It won't work w/o the W-spring.

Be careful when re-installing the steering wheel If the turn signal lever is in the L or R position and you push the steering wheel on and it is over the small white tab it will CRUSH it. The small cancel tab is meant to move/down, not in/out.
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
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Botnu73
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

Thanks for the help, Everyone.
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cliffrun2
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

Ashman thanks for your explanation of the auto cancelling. My turn signal is not cancelling so I pulled the string wheel to see if there was a quick fix. Everything looked good, but when I used a small screwdriver to simulate the cancelling tab, moving the small white lever down, it did not cause the turn signal arm to return to center.
Does that mean I have to replace the whole turn signal assembly??

Thanks
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

It had been a while since I replaced my turn signal switch. I seem to recall that the little white tab that sticks out is direction sensitive. For example, when signalling a left turn it expects the canceling arm on the contact ring to rotate CCW as you turn the wheel too the left. Possibly more than one rotation. This means the canceling tab may hit the white tab lifting it UP while turning. Only when the wheel is re-centered in the CW direction and the canceling arm contacts the white tab in a top-down direction should the switch self-cancel. The opposite is true for a right turn.

Also, check that you have not over tightened the switch hold down screws. When they are too tight they can restrict the movement of the lever arm preventing it from canceling even if the tab has been tripped.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
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green1303
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

An OEM VW turn switch is still available new for 72-79 Beetles, made by Leopold Kostal. It’s only distributed by VEWIB (a German VW specialist wholesaler) as far as I know, so I haven’t seen it anywhere in the U.S. other than WCM, WW, and CIP1. I have one on my car.
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cliffrun2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

I later discovered that the white tab is directional sensitive as you stated. So as I simulated the cancelling tab with the small screwdriver, it functioned correctly, bringing the turn signal arm back to center. With the steering wheel back on, it seems the cancelling tab barley contacts the white tab and turn signal arm does not return fully. So it looks like the cancelling tab is not pushing the white tab enough to dis-engage the switch.

I will check to ensure the screws are not to tight on the switch assembly.
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baldessariclan
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

Another possibility to consider -- is you turn signal switch the original and/or OEM German one, or an aftermarket replacement? If aftermarket, they are often known for not working very well (if at all) at turn signal cancelling.

That's been my experience, as well -- after trying / fiddling / fighting with a couple new aftermarket turn signal switches, finally gave up and cleaned, repaired, and lubricated the old original turn signal switch that came with my car. It works fine now, and has no problem cancelling the signal following a turn.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

Also look at the centered position of the steering wheel. The white cancel tab in the turn signal switch is located at the 3-o'clock position. When the steering wheel is centered with the wheels pointing straight the canceling arm of the contact ring must also sit at 3-o'clock. If the steering wheel does not center this way the arm may not cancel once the wheels are pointed straight.
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road Sad }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}
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cliffrun2
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

baldessariclan wrote:
Another possibility to consider -- is you turn signal switch the original and/or OEM German one, or an aftermarket replacement? If aftermarket, they are often known for not working very well (if at all) at turn signal cancelling.

That's been my experience, as well -- after trying / fiddling / fighting with a couple new aftermarket turn signal switches, finally gave up and cleaned, repaired, and lubricated the old original turn signal switch that came with my car. It works fine now, and has no problem cancelling the signal following a turn.

I don't know if it's original. The turn signal arm looks pretty original.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: 1973 VW Beetle turn signal switch Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
Also look at the centered position of the steering wheel. The white cancel tab in the turn signal switch is located at the 3-o'clock position. When the steering wheel is centered with the wheels pointing straight the canceling arm of the contact ring must also sit at 3-o'clock. If the steering wheel does not center this way the arm may not cancel once the wheels are pointed straight.

Everything you mentioned checked out. I built-up the cancelling mechanism on the steering wheel underside (placed washers between the wheel and mechanism) and it worked for cancelling the right turn, but not the left. I hear the cancelling tab engaging the white tab turning the wheel CCW and on the CW rotation, I hear it click and the turn signal arm only return half-way. When I pull the steering wheel off, the white tab is down at about the 4 o'clock position (not fully retracted).

I appreciate all the suggestions/recommendations.
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