Looking at a '73 412

[FearTheDodo]

Hello all, I recently stumbled across someone on craigslist selling what he calls a Squareback but I know better. I've seen three 411/412s in my life. One at this past BugOut and two in the museum in Wolfsburg. This is a 1973 2 door-variant model with little information except, "4 speed, runs good, clear title, nice shape."

I've been reading through the articles in this section and know about the rarity of these cars and their parts. As well as the 3 deadly sins that go along with their transmission. It all seems quite different than my 74 Standard and I wrote out a list based on this thread of things to look at when I go check it out.

My biggest concern is I didn't think the two door variant models came with the 4 speed manual. I thought that was exclusive to the two door fast backs.

Here is the only picture provided. I looked it over and see a missing mirror and some trim along with surface rust but the bottom of the door is surprisingly intact.

Thoughts? The guy seems to be someone who picks up old cars and flips them, research showed mostly old Corvettes, occasionaly Westies and even a 1950s Ferrari. He is asking $2000.

_________________
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"Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself."
-Charlie Chaplin

Current VWs:
2014 Sportwagen S

Previous VWs:
1986 Quantum Wagon (my first VW)
1994 Passat Wagon GL (EU Spec)
2001 GTi VR6
2007 Jetta GLi
1974 Type 1 Ragtop
2012 Beetle 2.5
2009 GTi

[raygreenwood]

Actually.....in Europe, Canada and vritually anywhere else in the world....other than the USA.... that 411 and 412 could be bought.......all three models were available with the 004 four speed transmission.

There are no real rules of what could come with a four speed or not. In the USA.....from what I have been told over the decades......that carburetors, the four speed AND the two door sedan....were not offered on the menu at the dealer. Meaning you could not order either a four door or wagon with a four speed or with carbs......only with automatic and fuel injection. And you could not order a two door sedan for US dealer delivery.

This did not mean that one could not go to Germany and import a "tourist vehicle" back to the US..

I "think" this was done for several reasons.

1. There were small differences in safety and emissiona equipment that were on US market vehicles. Items like a reinforced front bumper, vapor control canisters....and with the regulations for safetly and emissions that were even in place in 1971 when the first 411 came here.....that limited ALL type 4 cars to fuel injection.

Then you have the oddity that due to various tuning issues.....as far as I know the four speed was only put in vehicles with carbs or D-jet fuel injection....never with the L-jet....which means that trying to import a two door sedan in the 1974 model year to the US....would mean it would have to be D-jet or carbs....and hence would no longer meet the then current emissions levels....which required L-jet injection and the de-tuned engine levels that made the 1.8L come into existence. And.....four speeds were still available abroad....because they did not use L-jet at time elsewhere.

2. Tourist vehicles...had to have equipment added at the end of the assembly line....to conform to regs at its eventual port of delivery. I speculate......that VW was really only doing these mods to the 2 door sedans on request.....but I do not know that for sure.

Yes.....this could have been a car that originated in Canada......or was brought in as a tourist vehicle......or just as easily could have been converted to a four speed from parts. I converted two of my wagons to four speed over the years.

Its worth looking at. If it was converted.....you may find that the engine firewall tin still has the hole for the transmission dip stick.

If one has all the parts.....you can convert a wagon or four door to a 004 four speed in about one day. All of the mounting holes and connection areas for either four speed or automatic are in all of the cars from the factory. Ray

[Lars S]

Ray is correct, over here in Europe I estimate some 90% of all Type4's were 4-speed manual.
I think you really need to see this car before deciding, it has the typical rust along the rear end of the front fender but who knows how the other side and the underside looks. As you know most cars looks a lot better in photos than in reality.
Some chrome trim is missing around the rear side windows (or was there a cheap model with no trim there?).

Hopefully you find this car in a shape not to bad for the money so you can continue joining us here at the 411/412 forum.

/Lars S
_________________
Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold

[FearTheDodo]

Hey all, thanks so much for the responses and advice. I went and checked it out this morning. The interior was in good shape, the amount of rot on the surface appeared to be deeper, especially around the wheels and along the rocker panels. The guy listed in the ad the car ran great but said today it hasn't run since last fall when he bought it from a friend who was moving.

The interior was in really good condition, but when I pulled back the carpet around the gas pedal and under the dash there was a ton of rust even though he said the pan was good. It just wasn't a project I was ready to tackle time and monetarily wise.

Damn do I love those Type 4's though. Always dreamed of having one like the orange 412 Variant on display at Wolfsburg.
_________________
----------------------------------
"Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself."
-Charlie Chaplin

Current VWs:
2014 Sportwagen S

Previous VWs:
1986 Quantum Wagon (my first VW)
1994 Passat Wagon GL (EU Spec)
2001 GTi VR6
2007 Jetta GLi
1974 Type 1 Ragtop
2012 Beetle 2.5
2009 GTi

[raygreenwood]