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Third Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2017 Posts: 116 Location: Texas Coast
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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Just wondering, I've been searching the web and I keep coming up blanks as to how to authenticate genuine Centerline wide-5 wheels.
I've owned plenty of sets of them, but it never came up before because I had always just ordered new. I was chatting with a guy today and I've a set on a car that I just assumed were look-a-likes but I've no way to tell for sure.
Thanks |
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Vanillagurilla Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2017 Posts: 1061 Location: California
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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I have some originals on my car and there are no markings so I don't know how you could tell. What I can say is that the original wheels are a true 2 piece wheel with sealant between the layers. You can see it in the center opening and in the lug holes. |
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Third Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2017 Posts: 116 Location: Texas Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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Thanks ! |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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I think they should have stainless rivets and not bolts.
Casey _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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L5wolvesf Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2009 Posts: 196 Location: Northern AZ
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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Ask Centerline. It is in their best interests to tell you how to sort out the real from knock offs.
(877) 283.6347 _________________ Amonster Motorsports
SNORE # 1196 sponsored by:
- www.356carburetorrescue.com/home.html
- Barnwerks Fabrication & Welding
- ArtSpeed Graphics
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.”
S. McQueen |
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oldschool5er Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 804 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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earthquake wrote: |
I think they should have stainless rivets and not bolts.
Casey |
Like Casey said they have SS rivets all the way through both halfs with the rivet set leaving a dimple in the center of the end. They are O'ringed and then covered in clear sealant like Vanilla mentioned. They are very light weight compared to the cast aluminum look alikes that have fake rivets that are just pressed in. The sets I have are stamped with Centerline on the rim but I believe later versions were not stamped. Bolt together spun aluminum rims are usually CMS which I consider just as good, and since you damage both styles of rims easily in racing by hitting stuff, CMS can be purchased by the half so the whole rim doesn't have to be replaced if you just bent one side, _________________ HRE in Westerville,Ohio
Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving. |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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Centerlines and Jackman Aluminum Stars are forged, CMS and other bolt-together wheel brands are spun.
Centerline
If it looks just like a Centerline, but has a 5-spoke center, then it's a Jackman Aluminum Star
CMS (Custom Metal Spinning)
CMS bolt together wheel with bead locks
The welded together spun aluminum wheels like Douglas and Mitchell that are popular on sand cars are similar to CMS, also spun, but are even weaker than bolt together wheels. Still fine for dunes, but will quickly bend like a soft shell taco in rocky terrain.
CMS - Douglas - etc. sand wheels - welded together halves
CMS sand wheel with reinforcing ring
The bolt-together wheels such as CMS or the old Streaker brand were invented by Fred Puhn, of Chassis Engineering, who built road race cars. A Sunbeam Tiger road race car I was a crew member for in 1968 used some very early examples of them. Fred wrote the HP book "How To Make Your Car Handle. He later sold the design and rights to Cragar, and the brand became Cragar Super Trick. They were extremely popular for decades on Funny Cars, Top Fuel, Pro Stock and other drag cars.
CMS wheels are not as tough as Centerlines or Jackman Aluminum Stars. The aluminum used is a somewhat softer alloy so they bend a little easier. That's necessary for the Spin forming process they use. CMS offers weld-in rim stiffener rings to compensate for that. Then they're a little heavier than Centerlines.
Spinning is a forming process that starts with a flat sheet mounted on a machine that rotates the sheet like a big lathe with a form, or die, or mold in the shape the finished part should be shaped to. Then an arm on the side presses a roller against the sheet to form it against that die.
All 3 brands, Centerline, Jackman and CMS, may be straightened even after they are SERIOUSLY bent. I've had Centerlines bent so bad it took 45 minutes of hammering with a BFH and 5' long pry bars to get to the lug nuts to remove the bent rim. Then have them come back looking damned near new. A cast aluminum wheel will break long before it bends that bad.
There are steel wheels that are imitations of Centerline/CMS type wheels. If a magnet sticks to the wheels, it is NOT a Centerline.
If at the opening in the center of the wheel shows 2 layers and the 2 halves are riveted together with stainless steel real rivets...Then it IS a Centerline. If the opening at the center of the wheels shows 2 layers and it has bolts around the edge of the flat, then it's NOT a Centerline.
Imitation Centerline cast wheels - 1 thick layer at the center opening
These cast Centerline-Look-a-like wheels are actually just fine in my book. Nobody seems proud enough of them to tell us what brand they're offering for sale. But I've seen some used on offroad play cars that got abused pretty hard and they took it. they're quite a bit heavier than Centerline, but cost a lot less too. They're about 1/2 the price new of a CMS. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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EnjoyNukaCola Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2014 Posts: 491 Location: Santa Clarita
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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L5wolvesf wrote: |
Ask Centerline. It is in their best interests to tell you how to sort out the real from knock offs.
(877) 283.6347 |
Not sure where that number goes because Centerline is no more.
To add to the confusion, I have a set of 15x6 4 lug Centerlines that appear to be a single spun outer rim with a welded-in center piece. The rivets appear to be cosmetic as there is no seam between where the two halves would be, but I could be very wrong. These are stamped CENTER LINE around the center hole and have original spec decal inside the rim with the company name, load rating, max tire size, and location in Santa Fe Springs, CA. _________________ "when i go to drive it i get to like 5-10 mph it is at high rpms and gets higher the faster i go when i shift up to second the rpms drop is this normal or what and this is my first vw please help" |
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L5wolvesf Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2009 Posts: 196 Location: Northern AZ
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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EnjoyNukaCola wrote: |
L5wolvesf wrote: |
Ask Centerline. It is in their best interests to tell you how to sort out the real from knock offs.
(877) 283.6347 |
Not sure where that number goes because Centerline is no more. |
Got it from their site. But the name and wheels evidently will survive.
http://www.centerlinewheels.com/about.html _________________ Amonster Motorsports
SNORE # 1196 sponsored by:
- www.356carburetorrescue.com/home.html
- Barnwerks Fabrication & Welding
- ArtSpeed Graphics
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.”
S. McQueen |
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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The name might have survived, but none of the previous wheel designs have survived. The current offerings only refer vaguely to one particular model of previous Centerline Wheel, the Convo-Pro, which came out in the mid 1990s and was fairly popular among drag racers and wannabes.
VW offroad wheels...NAW!!!!!
All the rest of their current wheels are just so many more of what forty-eleven other companies are getting made in China. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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oldschool5er Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 804 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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EnjoyNukaCola wrote: |
To add to the confusion, I have a set of 15x6 4 lug Centerlines that appear to be a single spun outer rim with a welded-in center piece. The rivets appear to be cosmetic as there is no seam between where the two halves would be, but I could be very wrong. These are stamped CENTER LINE around the center hole and have original spec decal inside the rim with the company name, load rating, max tire size, and location in Santa Fe Springs, CA. |
I can confirm this as a close friend just bought a set in Michigan and it is a 4 lug as you describe, rim stamped centerline and even has centerline branded hub covers. _________________ HRE in Westerville,Ohio
Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving. |
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Third Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2017 Posts: 116 Location: Texas Coast
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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I have two sets (of five) currently mounted up.
Both sets have actual dimpled rivets (dimples on the inboard side). Both came on cars I picked up and in each case the PO said that they were genuine.
One set are just the standard fare.
The other set are beadlocks (the 15" rears being single, the 16" fronts are double beadlock). A few of these appear to all have an oval stamp on the ring face with "Champion Beadlock" stamped on them (which leads me to think that's what they really are).
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dustymojave Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 5802 Location: Lake LA, Mojave Desert, SoCal
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:49 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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Champion is a brand of beadlocks to be added to wheels that were not made originally with beadlocks built into the wheel. For a number of years, this is how you got beadlock wheels. You bought the wheel, then welded the beadlock ring on. _________________ Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet. |
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Third Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2017 Posts: 116 Location: Texas Coast
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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Thanks Dusty.
That must be what I'm looking at here. |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: Authenticating Wide-5 Centerlines |
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Make sure if you have spun aluminum wheels the guy mounting the tires knows what he is doing, I saw a guy using a new style machine square the back out when he put it on the machine and stood on it a bit too much. they have to use light pressure on the rim grippers or what ever they are called.
Casey _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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