Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
6v/12v starting question
Forum Index -> Kit Car/Fiberglass Buggy/356 Replica Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BrilliantA3
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2006
Posts: 18
Location: West TN
BrilliantA3 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Hoping some air-cooled gurus here can help. I just inherited a 65ish dune buggy from my grandfather that he built 40ish years ago. He just rebuilt the motor last summer. Since then, it will only start when pushed down a hill. The starter motor engages but it won’t spin the flywheel. I’ve been out of the air cooled world for a while and could use some advice. It’s a dual port 1600 with a swing axle trans, a 6v flywheel and a 6v starter running on a 12v battery. So far I’ve bought a new battery but that didn’t help (it needed one anyway). I also changed the starter with one that was supposedly good but it’s doing the same thing. Motor is tight but turns over fine with a wrench.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
BrilliantA3
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2006
Posts: 18
Location: West TN
BrilliantA3 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

You can hear it click but it doesn’t turn over.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
jspbtown
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5152

jspbtown is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

First thing I would suggest is to make sure your facts are correct.

Is it really:
1. A 6 volt flywheel?
2. A 6 volt starter?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BrilliantA3
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2006
Posts: 18
Location: West TN
BrilliantA3 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Yes. I counted the teeth on the flywheel to be 109. And the starter has 6v on both the larger body and the solenoid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
BL3Manx
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
BL3Manx is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Possibly a worn or incorrect size starter bushing in the bell housing allowing the armature to cock and bind

If its a 67-68 transaxle it would use this with a 6 volt starter

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2156909

If its a 6v starter and pre-67 transaxle

https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111301155

With the engine still installed, a tap threaded into the bushing and bottomed out against the engine case will extract the bushing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KAmes
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 876
Location: Illinois
KAmes is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

BL3Manx wrote:
Possibly a worn or incorrect size starter bushing in the bell housing allowing the armature to cock and bind


X2 on this, this makes sense and would cause those symptoms. Maybe the bushing is missing altogether.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BrilliantA3
Samba Member


Joined: December 02, 2006
Posts: 18
Location: West TN
BrilliantA3 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll pull the motor this weekend to check bushing and update y’all on what I find.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
manxdavid
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2003
Posts: 1841
Location: David Jones, Anglesey, North Wales, UK. Manxclub #678.
manxdavid is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Why not just fit a 12v flywheel and a 12v starter from an auto (self supporting, no bush required) along with a 200mm clutch? A 180mm clutch wouldn't last that long in a 1600 buggy anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Q-Dog
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8689
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
Q-Dog is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Don't need to pull the engine to replace a starter bushing. Boy, that would be a real pain in the bee-hind if you did.
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MrGoodtunes
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 849
Location: South Florida
MrGoodtunes is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

manxdavid wrote:
... A 180mm clutch wouldn't last that long in a 1600 buggy anyway ...


I guess that depends on how you drive it? My 6v 180mm clutch has had no problem with my 1600cc dual port, dual carb engine since 1992; well over 100,000 miles. It probably helps that my buggy weighs ~1300 pounds, and I drive like a school teacher.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jspbtown
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5152

jspbtown is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Quote:
Why not just fit a 12v flywheel and a 12v starter from an auto (self supporting, no bush required) along with a 200mm clutch?


^^The best advice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BL3Manx
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
BL3Manx is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
Quote:
Why not just fit a 12v flywheel and a 12v starter from an auto (self supporting, no bush required) along with a 200mm clutch?


^^The best advice


Really

A bushing will cost maybe $10 bucks. (BTW, grease the bushing)

I think a new flywheel, clutch, main seal, shims, (borrow big ass socket and torque wrench) and starter would be maybe $300 and he'd have to pull the engine?

Isn't he just trying to fix his starter?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
manxdavid
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2003
Posts: 1841
Location: David Jones, Anglesey, North Wales, UK. Manxclub #678.
manxdavid is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:10 am    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Sorry about that, sometimes I forget that not everyone has a stash of parts gathered over 40 odd years.

When I suggested changing flywheels it was mainly because 6v ones are seldom a straight fit on a 12v engine, I was wondering how it was done and if it could be part of the problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jspbtown
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5152

jspbtown is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Quote:
Really

A bushing will cost maybe $10 bucks. (BTW, grease the bushing)

I think a new flywheel, clutch, main seal, shims, (borrow big ass socket and torque wrench) and starter would be maybe $300 and he'd have to pull the engine?



Sorry.....$300 for a better set up, fixing it only once and better reliability for a buggy that cost him nothing is short money for me.

Just my opinion. I am too old and my time too precious to cut corners and get stranded for a couple of hundred bucks
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BL3Manx
Samba Member


Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
BL3Manx is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

jspbtown wrote:
Quote:
Really

A bushing will cost maybe $10 bucks. (BTW, grease the bushing)

I think a new flywheel, clutch, main seal, shims, (borrow big ass socket and torque wrench) and starter would be maybe $300 and he'd have to pull the engine?



Sorry.....$300 for a better set up, fixing it only once and better reliability for a buggy that cost him nothing is short money for me.

Just my opinion. I am too old and my time too precious to cut corners and get stranded for a couple of hundred bucks


Even if the starter falls off and gets lost, its not going to strand him? Its a VW starter. That's why they made hills, friends, tow straps and second gear
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jspbtown
Samba Member


Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 5152

jspbtown is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Quote:
Even if the starter falls off and gets lost, its not going to strand him? Its a VW starter. That's why they made hills, friends, tow straps and second gear


I understand.....everyone just hits point in their life where that kind of hassle isn't worth a couple of hundred bucks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rbgastelu
Samba Member


Joined: December 25, 2017
Posts: 2
Location: Rock Hill, SC
rbgastelu is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

Need help:
I have a 40HP engine with a 6V flywheel (180 mm) and also have a 1969 transmission (12V). I need an starter that operates with 12V that fit the transmission and crank the 6V flywheel.

I purchased a regular 12V starter and mounted but is making a horrible noise when tries to crank up.

Thanks for your assistance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
62kellison
Samba Member


Joined: March 28, 2018
Posts: 513
Location: mass
62kellison is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

BrilliantA3 ,also make sure your starter is wired correctly.i had to re wire mine.it was hooked up incorrectly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EverettB Premium Member
Administrator


Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69734
Location: Phoenix Metro
EverettB is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

rbgastelu wrote:
Need help:
I have a 40HP engine with a 6V flywheel (180 mm) and also have a 1969 transmission (12V). I need an starter that operates with 12V that fit the transmission and crank the 6V flywheel.

I purchased a regular 12V starter and mounted but is making a horrible noise when tries to crank up.

Thanks for your assistance.


The 12v has a different gear on the end that won't match up with the 6v flywheel teeth - you will mess up the flywheel teeth if you keep using it.

You need to either use a 6v starter (it will work, just don't crank it for a long time or it will get really hot) or locate a 12v starter with a 6v gear on the end.

Someone recently posted that aircooled.net sells some "mismatched" starters:
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/VW-Starters-s/152.htm
_________________
How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Facebook Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MrGoodtunes
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 849
Location: South Florida
MrGoodtunes is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
The 12v has a different gear on the end that won't match up with the 6v flywheel teeth - you will mess up the flywheel teeth if you keep using it.

You need to either use a 6v starter (it will work, just don't crank it for a long time or it will get really hot) or locate a 12v starter with a 6v gear on the end...


Or, get a 6v starter and swap its solenoid with the one on your 12v starter. (You'll also have to change the pinion shaft end bushing.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Kit Car/Fiberglass Buggy/356 Replica All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.