Author |
Message |
BrilliantA3 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 18 Location: West TN
|
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Hoping some air-cooled gurus here can help. I just inherited a 65ish dune buggy from my grandfather that he built 40ish years ago. He just rebuilt the motor last summer. Since then, it will only start when pushed down a hill. The starter motor engages but it won’t spin the flywheel. I’ve been out of the air cooled world for a while and could use some advice. It’s a dual port 1600 with a swing axle trans, a 6v flywheel and a 6v starter running on a 12v battery. So far I’ve bought a new battery but that didn’t help (it needed one anyway). I also changed the starter with one that was supposedly good but it’s doing the same thing. Motor is tight but turns over fine with a wrench. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BrilliantA3 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 18 Location: West TN
|
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
You can hear it click but it doesn’t turn over. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5152
|
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
First thing I would suggest is to make sure your facts are correct.
Is it really:
1. A 6 volt flywheel?
2. A 6 volt starter? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BrilliantA3 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 18 Location: West TN
|
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Yes. I counted the teeth on the flywheel to be 109. And the starter has 6v on both the larger body and the solenoid. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
KAmes Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014 Posts: 876 Location: Illinois
|
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
BL3Manx wrote: |
Possibly a worn or incorrect size starter bushing in the bell housing allowing the armature to cock and bind |
X2 on this, this makes sense and would cause those symptoms. Maybe the bushing is missing altogether. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BrilliantA3 Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 18 Location: West TN
|
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll pull the motor this weekend to check bushing and update y’all on what I find. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
manxdavid Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003 Posts: 1841 Location: David Jones, Anglesey, North Wales, UK. Manxclub #678.
|
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:45 am Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Why not just fit a 12v flywheel and a 12v starter from an auto (self supporting, no bush required) along with a 200mm clutch? A 180mm clutch wouldn't last that long in a 1600 buggy anyway. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8689 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
|
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:12 am Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Don't need to pull the engine to replace a starter bushing. Boy, that would be a real pain in the bee-hind if you did. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MrGoodtunes Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 849 Location: South Florida
|
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:32 am Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
manxdavid wrote: |
... A 180mm clutch wouldn't last that long in a 1600 buggy anyway ... |
I guess that depends on how you drive it? My 6v 180mm clutch has had no problem with my 1600cc dual port, dual carb engine since 1992; well over 100,000 miles. It probably helps that my buggy weighs ~1300 pounds, and I drive like a school teacher. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5152
|
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Quote: |
Why not just fit a 12v flywheel and a 12v starter from an auto (self supporting, no bush required) along with a 200mm clutch? |
^^The best advice |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
|
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
jspbtown wrote: |
Quote: |
Why not just fit a 12v flywheel and a 12v starter from an auto (self supporting, no bush required) along with a 200mm clutch? |
^^The best advice |
Really
A bushing will cost maybe $10 bucks. (BTW, grease the bushing)
I think a new flywheel, clutch, main seal, shims, (borrow big ass socket and torque wrench) and starter would be maybe $300 and he'd have to pull the engine?
Isn't he just trying to fix his starter? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
manxdavid Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2003 Posts: 1841 Location: David Jones, Anglesey, North Wales, UK. Manxclub #678.
|
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:10 am Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Sorry about that, sometimes I forget that not everyone has a stash of parts gathered over 40 odd years.
When I suggested changing flywheels it was mainly because 6v ones are seldom a straight fit on a 12v engine, I was wondering how it was done and if it could be part of the problem. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5152
|
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:46 am Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Quote: |
Really
A bushing will cost maybe $10 bucks. (BTW, grease the bushing)
I think a new flywheel, clutch, main seal, shims, (borrow big ass socket and torque wrench) and starter would be maybe $300 and he'd have to pull the engine? |
Sorry.....$300 for a better set up, fixing it only once and better reliability for a buggy that cost him nothing is short money for me.
Just my opinion. I am too old and my time too precious to cut corners and get stranded for a couple of hundred bucks |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BL3Manx Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 6767 Location: Northern California
|
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
jspbtown wrote: |
Quote: |
Really
A bushing will cost maybe $10 bucks. (BTW, grease the bushing)
I think a new flywheel, clutch, main seal, shims, (borrow big ass socket and torque wrench) and starter would be maybe $300 and he'd have to pull the engine? |
Sorry.....$300 for a better set up, fixing it only once and better reliability for a buggy that cost him nothing is short money for me.
Just my opinion. I am too old and my time too precious to cut corners and get stranded for a couple of hundred bucks |
Even if the starter falls off and gets lost, its not going to strand him? Its a VW starter. That's why they made hills, friends, tow straps and second gear |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jspbtown Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5152
|
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:43 am Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Quote: |
Even if the starter falls off and gets lost, its not going to strand him? Its a VW starter. That's why they made hills, friends, tow straps and second gear |
I understand.....everyone just hits point in their life where that kind of hassle isn't worth a couple of hundred bucks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
rbgastelu Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2017 Posts: 2 Location: Rock Hill, SC
|
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
Need help:
I have a 40HP engine with a 6V flywheel (180 mm) and also have a 1969 transmission (12V). I need an starter that operates with 12V that fit the transmission and crank the 6V flywheel.
I purchased a regular 12V starter and mounted but is making a horrible noise when tries to crank up.
Thanks for your assistance. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
62kellison Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2018 Posts: 513 Location: mass
|
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
BrilliantA3 ,also make sure your starter is wired correctly.i had to re wire mine.it was hooked up incorrectly. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69734 Location: Phoenix Metro
|
Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
rbgastelu wrote: |
Need help:
I have a 40HP engine with a 6V flywheel (180 mm) and also have a 1969 transmission (12V). I need an starter that operates with 12V that fit the transmission and crank the 6V flywheel.
I purchased a regular 12V starter and mounted but is making a horrible noise when tries to crank up.
Thanks for your assistance. |
The 12v has a different gear on the end that won't match up with the 6v flywheel teeth - you will mess up the flywheel teeth if you keep using it.
You need to either use a 6v starter (it will work, just don't crank it for a long time or it will get really hot) or locate a 12v starter with a 6v gear on the end.
Someone recently posted that aircooled.net sells some "mismatched" starters:
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/VW-Starters-s/152.htm _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MrGoodtunes Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2012 Posts: 849 Location: South Florida
|
Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: 6v/12v starting question |
|
|
EverettB wrote: |
The 12v has a different gear on the end that won't match up with the 6v flywheel teeth - you will mess up the flywheel teeth if you keep using it.
You need to either use a 6v starter (it will work, just don't crank it for a long time or it will get really hot) or locate a 12v starter with a 6v gear on the end... |
Or, get a 6v starter and swap its solenoid with the one on your 12v starter. (You'll also have to change the pinion shaft end bushing.) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|