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Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem
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Sjvantrease
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Now. I have a 1970 type 3 fastback fuel injected with a fresh engine rebuild. It startes after a few cranks. And then floods and dies. Any ideas? Fuel pressure is 28, and the regulator is working, and stays at 28 until it dies. Any ideas?
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Either injectors are leaking......or the cold start injector is leaking. Ray
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Thanks for moving the discussion here.

It may or may not be FI related, so I usually start with a tuneup. It's free, and can eliminate a lot of causes along the way. This way you know what is and isn't right. The FI is often the first to be implicated, but is usually not the cause.

Flooding usually comes from vacuum leaks, bad FI wiring, or low voltage. Those are free, but sometimes time-consuming to check. I'd start there.

By the way, how do you know it's flooding as it dies?
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Sjvantrease
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

the exhaust smells like gas very badly, and it dies. Then when I unplug the fuel pump it starts and runs perfect, until it runs out of fuel.
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Sjvantrease
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

I have also unpluged the cold start and throttle position sensor and it runs the same.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Sjvantrease wrote:
the exhaust smells like gas very badly, and it dies. Then when I unplug the fuel pump it starts and runs perfect, until it runs out of fuel.


That says most of it right there.

Unplugging the cold start injector......is not a fix for it if its leaking. Its common that the injector is damaged or rusted....so it sprays even if its disconnected.

To make sure its not a leaking cold start valve....unplug the fuel line from it and temporarily clamp a syriaght througj piece of tube.

But you also need to pay attention to what KTPhil noted.....you cannot have one single vacuim leak in the system anywhere...no matter how slight. A vacuum leak is read by the MPS as ......throttle open......so it dumps in fuel. Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Sjvantrease wrote:
the exhaust smells like gas very badly, and it dies.


A failing ignition system will cause this, since you are pumping unburned fuel through the exhaust.

Sjvantrease wrote:
Then when I unplug the fuel pump it starts and runs perfect, until it runs out of fuel.


An FI car generally needs the fuel pump running in order to start and run, even for a short time. How long before it dies?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Sjvantrease wrote:
the exhaust smells like gas very badly, and it dies. Then when I unplug the fuel pump it starts and runs perfect, until it runs out of fuel.


That says most of it right there.

Unplugging the cold start injector......is not a fix for it if its leaking. Its common that the injector is damaged or rusted....so it sprays even if its disconnected.

To make sure its not a leaking cold start valve....unplug the fuel line from it and temporarily clamp a syriaght througj piece of tube.

But you also need to pay attention to what KTPhil noted.....you cannot have one single vacuim leak in the system anywhere...no matter how slight. A vacuum leak is read by the MPS as ......throttle open......so it dumps in fuel. Ray


Or- the MPS IS the vacuum leak. This is becoming more and more common as our cars age.
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Sjvantrease
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Sjvantrease wrote:
the exhaust smells like gas very badly, and it dies.


A failing ignition system will cause this, since you are pumping unburned fuel through the exhaust.

Sjvantrease wrote:
Then when I unplug the fuel pump it starts and runs perfect, until it runs out of fuel.


An FI car generally needs the fuel pump running in order to start and run, even for a short time. How long before it dies?


It will not start with the fuel pump unplugged unless it has dies from flooding first. Then it will start and run for about 15 seconds or so.
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Sjvantrease
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Thanks guys for the info. I will see what I can do this weekend.
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Sjvantrease
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Here is an update. I plugged off the cold start valve made no difference. I checked all the vacuum lines, I'm pretty sure the are no leaks. But I'm having a hard time finding the right vacuum line diagram to make sure the lines are correct.
I then unwired the injectors and it wouldn't start, and no gas smell.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

You say this is a fresh engine rebuild.
- Did this start right away, meaning it never ran right after the rebuild, or did this develop some time later?
- Are the ignition components new, or validated? Poor ignition can leave unburned fuel and make it seem like its running rich.
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Sjvantrease
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

It has done this since the rebuild. And I have not touched the ignition. I did get it run some better by taking the mps apart and cleaning it, it had some oil in it which I wasn't sure about. Is this normal?
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Sjvantrease wrote:
It has done this since the rebuild. And I have not touched the ignition. I did get it run some better by taking the mps apart and cleaning it, it had some oil in it which I wasn't sure about. Is this normal?


Ok....a couple of items first....if you took the MPS apart ....which I have no issue with.....which MPS model do you have?
And.....if it has the screw in outer plug...did you put back in at exactly the same number of threads/turns that it camde out?

Also did you check to make sure it holds vacuum....and did you check the resistance between the outer pair and inner pair lf contacts in the plug?

Also....if its done this since the rebuild.....put the engine at TDC and pull the distributor and make sure the drive is innstalled correctly.

Find a vacuum diagram and make sure everything is routed right and solid...no cracks....and all clamped or very tight.

Next pull the injectors....make sure the tip seals are new.....and put each injector in a small jar or a paint can cap etc. Blip the key about 3-4 times to charge the system up but do not turn the engine over and do not open or move the throttle. Over 15-20 minutes observe if any of the injectors are leaking.

Also are these stock Bosch injectors? ....if not......post the part #s on the injectors. Lets match them up and find out what size they are. Its highly possible that everything is working fine but you just have massive injectors. Ray
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with my type 3 fuel injected flooding problem Reply with quote

Sjvantrease wrote:
It has done this since the rebuild. And I have not touched the ignition. I did get it run some better by taking the mps apart and cleaning it, it had some oil in it which I wasn't sure about. Is this normal?


Oil can condense in the line and get in there. That isn't a huge concern, though.

As Ray posted, taking it apart has some pitfalls, and it should check out electrically and hold vacuum before anything else. Was there seal between the halves? Sometimes those are missing and it won't hold vacuum that way.

You probably have the type with the large "plug" (actually, a full load adjustment) in 1970.

How is the wiring to the cylinder head temp sensor? High resistance reads like low temperatures, and therefore signals enrichment to the ECU.
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