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Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil.
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

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I say this kindly, if you do not know where to add the transmission oil, I doubt you can solve the problem you have created


Diplomacy is your forte.

OP...you will need a good collection of tools and some practice to get this dealt with. I’ve forgotten your location but there are at least four mobile mechanics here who roam from WA to San Diego
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

where would the bell housing drain from ?
and if a hole needs to be drilled in the bell housing
for it to drain,
where would we drill the hole?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

Do NOT, do NOT, do NOT!!! drill a hole in what you’ve photographed. That is the transmission, not the bell housing.

The bell housing is the case between the transmission and the engine block.

Do you have a Bentley or Haynes or any shop manual yet?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

Nice fauxpas Very Happy .

The connection between the engine and the bellhousing is not oil-tight on the diesels, so it will drain itself, don´t drill holes.
But you have to remove the tranny anyway, because your clutch disc is full of oil and will slip forever if you dont change or clean it.

Your "dipstick" is a remnant of the dipstick tube for the engine oil.
A preowner cut it and closed it with tongs.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

So far your actions have caused significant problems without helping anything. Stop taking actions. How to check and fill the various fluids is not secret information and not something to guess at. The thought that you poured oil into your bell housing is irrefutable proof that you should not do anything else to your vehicle without a lot of education first. With your current level of understanding you can/will cause expensive and/or dangerous/deadly issues.
This is to be taken seriously. Read the owner's manual. Read the Haynes. Read the Bentley. Take a class at your community college. After that, you might consider opening your engine lid again.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

Drilling a hole in the bellhousing is no big deal, VW once even had a service bulletin about doing so to spray lubricant on the throwout bearing.

As the engine and tranny sit in the vehicle, if you center the hole 1/2 rearward of the drain plug that would keep you from hitting the clutch cover when you drill through. Someone who has a Diesel bellhousing sitting out could give you a dimension from the engine to tranny parting line.
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

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If this is what it looks like....won't it just drain out between the engine and the bellhousing?
Or has it drained already?
Its not gasketed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

Just for the sake of discussion.....

Wildthings mentions drilling a tiny hole halfway behind the trans drainplug (the yellow dot). From the pic it appears that the oil will drain out on its own without drilling (and probably has already drained as T3Messie has suggested above). I don't know anything about the diesel bellhousing - only this pic, and it could be wrong pic too. Wink

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It would be good to have a "real mechanic" drive it and assess the condition of the clutch (after a week). If it's "OK" now..... it might heal further. There is something to be said for driving it and spreading the oil evenly around the clutch, than concentrated on the bottom.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also note that a spinning clutch throws oil outward, whereas a parked van it all drains to one location at "1G" in gravity. Whereas 3000 RPM at the edge of a 180mm clutch disc is throwing oil outward with a force of 2262 "Gravitys". Which do you think will rid the disc of oil faster? Driving might be up to 2262 times faster than simply waiting for it to drain. So you can wait one week or rev it 3,000RPM for a few minutes with the clutch depressed for much better results. Even better drive 3000RPM and press the clutch so the pressure plate is spinning too. Or just drive the dang thing ------> as long as the clutch is not slipping. <------ which may requre a real mechanic to assess.

The diesel van does not have a lot of HP, it might be OK with a little bit of oil. A little bit.
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Last edited by Sodo on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

I still don't have any idea why someone would tackle gear oil as a first(?) step in Vanagon ownership maintenance. I feel like we're being trolled here…

As ?Waldo? points out, OP is operating from a dangerous lack of information. If you can't get a Bentley or Haynes manual, use the internet. Change the oil and filter first, as a way of getting an easy win under your belt. That will get you under the thing and more familiar with it. You would have wanted to drain the old oil anyway and if you looked that up, all this would have been avoided.

Was the transmission whining? They can do that after almost 40 years of service (how many miles?).
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

You bring up a good point,,,, it does seem kinda outlandish action for a "first mistake" doesn't it? Just find a hole and dump oil in it.... has a fakey smell. But it could be a genuine "new and original mistake."

Paulbeard wrote:
Learn from the mistakes of others, then try to make some new and original mistakes so others can learn from you.


And certainly there are interesting points to be learned from the discussion. Wink Wink

Too bad there isn't a reliable observer able to report what's really happening. I'd like to hear that it was healed without turning a wrench (but only if its real). It's feasible that most of the oil pooled on the bottom and drained, with only a tiny bit getting on the clutch and caused a (temporary) shudder.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

Sodo wrote:
But it could be a genuine "new and original mistake."


Touché…but not exactly what I had in mind Laughing

Sodo wrote:

And certainly there are interesting points to be learned from the discussion. Wink Wink

Too bad there isn't a reliable observer able to report what's really happening. I'd like to hear that it was healed without turning a wrench (but only if its real). It's feasible that most of the oil pooled on the bottom and drained, with only a tiny bit getting on the clutch and caused a (temporary) shudder.


It would be good if OP recovered from this with only some damage to their pride but I'm still curious about the thought process (!) that got them here. [/quote]
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

Thank you all again. And not sure what possess us to do things.. Is it some karma that has to bring worry into my life? I look back at that moment and don't even know what the mind was thinking but we quickly stopped and caught hold of ourselves and thought .. "what are we doing?" i guess its that way with other mistakes we might have made in life. And yes.. putting things in wrong holes can be a mistake. ... What was i thinking back then?
no ill effects physically, just a bit of regret when someone isn't who they pretend to be and have secrets... sorry for getting off point..

anyway.. update.. when i had to move it yesterday. it was fine, 1st through 4th gear.
then about 20 minutes later it had a little chatter pulling away from a stop sign. engaged it quick so it move forward. later in the day just had to move it a few hundred meters. No slipping or chatter. Is something happening when it heats up? and and as far as drain holes..
Yes.. no drain hole needed.
T3messie wrote:

the connection between the engine and the bellhousing is not oil-tight on the diesels, so it will drain itself, don´t drill holes.


And Yes Sodo , thanks for the pic... that is what it looks like. You are right it is draining. because I had dropped the engine cover plate down and noticed its moist where bellhousing connects to engine. I then wiped that bottom side clean this morning. I then sprayed a little brake cleaner in the timing hole onto the clutch.
Sure enough, it is dripping out at a point where bellhousing connects with engine, so no drilling holes needed. Also Started it up, kept it in neutral and had my buddy step on the clutch several times and sprayed some more brake cleaner in there. Didn't let the engine warm up, only ran it 30 seconds. Will let it drip now and then plan on a long drive this weekend.


Last edited by ronjohn82 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
So far your actions have caused significant problems without helping anything. Stop taking actions. How to check and fill the various fluids is not secret information and not something to guess at. The thought that you poured oil into your bell housing is irrefutable proof that you should not do anything else to your vehicle without a lot of education first. With your current level of understanding you can/will cause expensive and/or dangerous/deadly issues.
This is to be taken seriously. Read the owner's manual. Read the Haynes. Read the Bentley. Take a class at your community college. After that, you might consider opening your engine lid again.

X2
Do yourself a favor and not work on your vehicle until you have more education about what you're doing.
I'm all for learning "hands on" , however, just blindly fumbling around can be dangerous.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

ronjohn82 wrote:
Sure enough, it is dripping out at a point where bellhousing connects with engine, so no drilling holes needed.


The carb cleaner will help ensure it drains by thinning the oil and clearing the drain path.

ronjohn82 wrote:
Also Started it up, kept it in neutral and had my buddy step on the clutch several times and sprayed some more brake cleaner in there.


That's perfect, that way you spin up the clutch disc too. Exactly what I would do.

ronjohn82 wrote:
Didn't let the engine warm up, only ran it 30 seconds. Will just let the van sit for a few days and let it drip some more.


I am now disagreeing with the intentional "sitting" suggestion. I think you should spray it and drive it. --->As long as the clutch is not slipping<--- it should be driven. The faster you "throw/dilute/burn/evaporate that oil off the fibre clutch disc,,,,the less time it has to "soak" into the clutch fiber.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

thanks Sodo..

i see your point..
will get her on the road today.

would carburetor cleaner be better than brake cleaner?

would i need to wait a certain amount of time after spraying it
with brake cleaner or carb cleaner before driving?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

ronjohn82 wrote:
would carburetor cleaner be better than brake cleaner?


I'd opt for non-flammable brake and parts cleaner for this job.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

I said to drive the van many posts ago...

You guys telling him he’s not worthy to work on his van all should weld your toolboxes shut if you’ve never made a mistake while learning to wrench.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

ronjohn82 wrote:
thanks Sodo..

i see your point..
will get her on the road today.

would carburetor cleaner be better than brake cleaner?

would i need to wait a certain amount of time after spraying it
with brake cleaner or carb cleaner before driving?


I wrote carb cleaner by mistake. I know carb cleaner will mix/thin with oil very well. I don't know how brake cleaner compares (in trying to remove oil). Carburetor cleaner is very BAD to get ANY on brake rubber parts..

Since there are no brake parts (brake rubbers) in there carb cleaner is prob OK. Since the clutch slave cylinder, which is similar (in a way) to brake parts is external , and far enough away, carb cleaner may be the right choice. DO NOT get any carb cleaner spray on your clutch slave cylinder. (where's the clutch slave cylinder? Driver side top of clutch housing and iIt moves about 1/2 inch (visibly) when your helper pushes the clutch.

You could test-spray both brake cleaner and carb cleaner on the oily transmission bottom, and if either one dissolves the oil more readily, use that one. If they offer the same thinning/cleaning, brake cleaner is the safer choice.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

Aryana wrote:
You guys telling him he’s not worthy to work on his van all should weld your toolboxes shut if you’ve never made a mistake while learning to wrench.


Who told them they 'aren't worthy to work on their van'? I think I probably came the closest with a recommendation to take an active role in educating themselves FIRST. That's a far cry from telling them they are not worthy.
Obviously everyone makes mistakes. If, when I was learning, I made such a thoughtless mistake as to pour gear lube into a random hole in the drivetrain, obviously without any investigation into the proper place or method to fill the trans or even how to check the proper level, I can only hope that someone would give me a robust wake-up call. I haven't seen any rudeness in this thread, just well-meaning reality checks and for that the OP should be grateful.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Newbie Needs help, is this where you fill the gear oil. Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:

Who told them they 'aren't worthy to work on their van'? I think I probably came the closest with a recommendation to take an active role in educating themselves FIRST. That's a far cry from telling them they are not worthy.
Obviously everyone makes mistakes. If, when I was learning I made such a thoughtless mistake as to pour gear lube into a random hole in the drivetrain, obviously without any investigation into the proper place or method to fill the trans or even how to check the proper level, I can only hope that someone would give me a robust wake-up call. I haven't seen any rudeness in this thread, just well-meaning reality checks and for that the OP should be grateful.


Nice to see you have a conscience, albeit a guilty one. I can see you have the desire to get off the high horse you were on and for that you should be commended.

?Waldo? wrote:
So far your actions have caused significant problems without helping anything. Stop taking actions. How to check and fill the various fluids is not secret information and not something to guess at. The thought that you poured oil into your bell housing is irrefutable proof that you should not do anything else to your vehicle without a lot of education first. With your current level of understanding you can/will cause expensive and/or dangerous/deadly issues.
This is to be taken seriously. Read the owner's manual. Read the Haynes. Read the Bentley. Take a class at your community college. After that, you might consider opening your engine lid again.


And in case you missed this post from AndyBees, here it is.

AndyBees wrote:
I say this kindly, if you do not know where to add the transmission oil, I doubt you can solve the problem you have created.

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