Won't start

[zombiebug]

Hello! I'm usually in the super beetle section and it's been a while. I've been helping a friend with a 78 bay w/ FI and we are stumped. He drove it without the engine bay seal and it got hot to melt the spark plug wires. He towed it home and for the past few months hasn't been able to start it.

The list:
He changed the plug wires
Changed the coil (Bosch blue oil filled)
Put an 009 dizzy on just to get it running and plugged vaccum line.
We gapped points as per the books.
We adjusted valves.
We set timing at 8 degrees BTDC.

While cranking the car with the intake off we had a squeak noise that seemed to be from pressure. If you turned the engine by hand it wouldn't happen. I was told that was the dash pot as it's still FI. So we put the intake on and hooked up all the tubes and cables. Now we are still not getting it to start and the squeak had gone away. We discovered we were getting a yellow spark when we check the plugs and what we had at the points while cranking. Changed back to the old coil still Bosch blue oil filled and now we have a blue spark but still won't start and now the squeak is back after multiple attempts at cranking. So with everything we listed what are we missing?

Thabk you! [/u]
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'74 Super

[timvw7476]

You can always try a teaspoon of gasoline in the S boot (air intake)
& see what happens.
My experience with melted sparkplug wires indicates bad stuff, the squeak could be a distorted cylinder head. It may run but it will also have at least one
sub-par cylinder & VWs need all cylinders all the time to function.
You can also do a compression check, the numbers can be anywhere from 85 ish
to 125 psi +, but if you've got one way off from the others, driving won't be fun.

[zombiebug]

Yea that's what I was thinking. We are getting plenty of gas because you can smell it as we're cranking. It's possible we have a bum cylinder but I've seen engines with three bum cylinders at least start. So I'm really confused why this motor won't light. I'll do compression checks and see what we have. Anything else I missed?
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'74 Super

[Randy in Maine]

Confirm the dwell angle is 47º +/- 3º.

Did you hook up the long tan wire from the coil to the ECU? That is what sensd the signal for the injectors to actually "fire".

[Wildthings]

What is your compression? An engine isn't going to start easy if the rings are stuck or the valves are hung up in their guides.

When you swap to an 009 distributor you need to rotate the wires 90° from the position they were for a DVDA or SVDA dizzy. Sorry can't remember which direction.

[aeromech]

Have you determined if this is a hydraulic or solid lifter engine? You say you adjusted the valves. I believe 1978 buses came with hydraulic valves. There's a difference in the way they are adjusted.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Wildthings]

It is hard to imagine the engine bay getting hot enough to hurt the wires. Are the cooling flaps and thermostat there and working? Have you checked in the fan shroud and under the tin for mice nests?

[zabo]

fyi - a missing engine bay seal would not cause it to overheat, certainly not so much as to melt the wires..

When you do the compression test change out the spark plugs as well.
_________________
1960 6 volt sedan- 1978 adventurewagen
–wanted bill spreen atlanta dealer tag frame

[zombiebug]

Thank you all for your help. I will check the compression this weekend. We already changed the plugs.

Why do you have to. Rotate the wires?

I think there was a mouse nest in there originally? I'm not to sure but I know he got very hot to melt those wires. I know when we adjusted valves they were so very tight I had to take six full turns out to even get a feeler guage in. I think it was a combination of things that got the engine too hot.

How do. I tell the difference between hydrolic lifters and standard lifters? They looked like normal vw lifters to me. And I've been looking at lifters on a 74 super for seven years now.

I think that tan wore is hooked up? Both myself and the person who owns the bus is colorblind. Talk about the blind leading the blind. Well double check it soon. Thanks for all your help!
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'74 Super

[aeromech]

Do a search to find out how to tell the difference between the two types of lifters.

If you made 6 turns CCW on the adjuster to achieve.006 I’d say there’s a great chance that you actually do have hydraulics and now they are way out of adjustment.

A bug guy wouldn’t know that so don’t take it personally
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Wildthings]

[Tcash]

Lifters Hydraulic or Solid ?

[ToolBox]

[quote="Wildthings"]

[zombiebug]

So we got it running! But now were stuck again. The car will start every time and race up on rpms then slowly go back down and die out. Once it dies you can start it right back up no problem but it does the same thing. If you try to idle it it goes down on rpms a little then shuts off like the key is hit.

With the ignition on the could has 12 volts. Once it starts it drops to around 4 volts then slowly comes back up to like 8. Once that moment where it dies instantly the volts goes back to 12.

Dwell varies between 80 and 67.

Fuel pump only had volts when engine is running. With just the ignition on it shows nothing but the second you crank it goes to 12 volts..
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'74 Super

[Wildthings]

Sounds like you have a big vacuum leak, likely a hose blew or was knocked off.

[zombiebug]

Link

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'74 Super

[Abscate]

[Wildthings]

[zombiebug]

Abscat, that makes sense I've never dealt with electronic fuel pumps so I wasbt sure of it was worth noting. I will do some reading and get a fuel pressure test done today hopefully.

Wildthings, this is a new set of points and the block is in place. I will try that reading again today and double check with the points closed. I've always gone from the #15 side. It's the same for the supers.

Thank you all for your help! Should I be worried about the squeak?
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'74 Super

[Wildthings]