early ghia on late model chassis

[johnnie walker]

what kind of problems to put an early 60's ghia body on a late model ghia IRS chassis

[kingkarmann]

As quoted the late Jim Patterson and the House of Ghia Newsletter;

"Q: I understand I can put an early Ghia body on a late Ghia pan(or frame) easily. Almost no sweat, no pain. What does almost mean?
Telephone call (Common question, uncommonly phrased)

A #52 - Both of these vastly different questions are, without knowing it, referring to what I'll call the rear-most body mount bolt. The location of the bolt can best be found by supporting the rear of the car and removing a rear wheel. (See the diagram.) Often dirt has been packed into the area and it must be cleaned out to spot the 17mm bolt head.

So, by far, the most forgotten bolt is this, the rear most body mount bolt. It is also the bolt whose bracket must be slightly modified to put an early body on a late pan.

The mounting pads on the rear suspension of the late chassis are about 1 1/4 inch higher than on an early chassis. So, the mount will have to be shortened by about an inch and a quarter.

Look at the diagram of the mounting bracket. It is a relatively easy operation to cut out 1 1/4 inches of the triangular shaped bracket or channel. Of course, it requires a power saw of some type and welding. The surgery does not need to be of molecular tolerances because a slightly compressable rubber spacer can be inserted between each metal pad or "foot". In fact, the gap width between the back of the door and the quarter panel can be modified by placing spacers between the brace and the cast-in pad on the rear suspension.

Now, some of you are asking what's an early body? What's a late pan? Any body, coupe or convertible from 1956 thru 67 will fit a 1969 and later pan. All that's needed is the surgery described earlier. Of course, a '69 or later body will fit perfectly on a '69 thru '74 pan. Just as surgically, the heart from a 90 year old man could be transplanted into the chest of a teenager with a bad "pump", a reverse swap is possible, a late ('69-up) body can be installed on an early pan ('56-'67). But, why George, why?

Those with keen eyesight have noted I avoided talking about '68 model Ghias altogether. That's because, depending on plumbing, a '68 Ghia could be an early body or a late body. Sixty-eight autostick cars already had the IRS suspension that didn't show up on all Ghia models until '69."
_________________
"Depression is a malfunction of the instrument we use to determine reality.”

Mike Gerson

What is your "Bespoke Reality"?

[kheberling]

I will be placing a '62 vert body on a 71 IRS pan, and I see a lot of discussion on moving the rear body mounts up to accommodate the higher pan mounts. It all seems fairly straightforward, most instructions say make sure to place the rubber mount in between before welding, but my question is this — if I don't have the body to pan main gasket in place at the time of welding I really shouldn't use the rubber mount either when welding the bracket in place, correct?

Thanks for any advice.

[desmato]

I have a '67 body on a '69 pan and all that's different is the above mentioned rearmost body mount right in front of the rear shock (Mine are cut off, but being replaced)

I agree with the gasket/spacer theory.... however, I believe the thicknesses between the two are different. the body gasket compresses under the weight of the shell whereas the rear spacer is a solid block (and available in different thicknesses) I would suggest measuring a new set of each that you will be using just to be sure and better to err on the side of caution by making the rear mount spacing a tad larger that the spacer since shims can be added when necessary.

Todd

[kheberling]

Hi Todd. My apologies for the late response, your suggestion makes perfect sense, thank you.

Attached is a pic of the bracket. Before I start cutting, what are your recommendations for what and where to cut the existing bracket prior to rewelding it higher?

Thanks in advance.
Keith.

[slalombuggy]

On my car, I am going to take my spotweld cutter and remove the entire mount from the body. There WILL be rust between the 2 panels and you might as well clean it out before going any further. With it removed you can do this and move the entire mount upwards and button weld it back in for a nice finish. You will also have to flatten out the depressed area on the right side of the picture where it follows the contours of the inner panel and then fold whatever is hanging over back in.

Use a 3M Scotchbrite wheel to clean the mount before you start. IF you don't get real aggressive it will clean the paint on the flat part and leave paint where the spotwelds are making it easier to see where to cut them out. I use a 3/8 cutter if you have to buy one.

brad

[Veedubtt]

Hello guys, I'm new to samba. I have a quick question. Is it easier to fit a ghia body in a beetle chassis and pan or a type 3 chassis and pan? Thanks. The ghia body is a 1961-69 and the type 3 chassis i have is a 1968.

[Rome]

Onto a Beetle chassis, whereby you would have to cut off the Beetle floor pans and weld on the wider ones for the Ghia. And reposition the steering box clamp on the front axle to have the box at the lower angle for the lower Ghia seating position.

The Type 3 chassis is designed so differently than a Type 1; about the only aspect that is the same is the 94.5" wheelbase. The holes for the body attachment bolts would be in different locations, the 2 large bolts at the top of the front axle (under the gas tank) to mount the body would be different or missing entirely, the rear body mount at the rear shock absorbers would be different, etc.

[Veedubtt]

Thanks a lot for the info. Need to find that beetle chassis now.

[Rome]

veedub, make sure you find a standard Beetle with its torsion bar parallel tube front axle, not a Super Beetle with its MacPherson front suspension. That won't fit a Ghia body at all. A Super would be known in most markets as either a 1302 or 1303.

[iowegian]

[Veedubtt]

Trinidad and Tobago. There are less than 5 ghias remaining on the islands.