Heat Exchanger exhaust alignment

[BruceJ]

Replacing the exhaust on my '72 Bus, stock. I have filed the exhaust ends flat with each other, but am a little concerned that, from above, the angle of the ports seems askew, especially on the right box. Is this normal? I haven't taken the old ones off yet, and since the Bus is drivable in the interim, I want to make this a quick swap so I don't have to re-order, re-paint, re-measure, re-file, etc.. Just wanted to see if this is normal or not.

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1965 Beetle
1972 Westfalia

[BruceJ]

UPDATE: I got my hands on a spare head to test fit this heat exchanger. Sure enough, the fit was horrible. The left one slid right on and lined right up with the ports. But the right one (pictured above) I could force onto the head, but only by shoving, jamming, shoe-horning, etc.. And once in place I could see daylight where the pipes meet the ports on the head (it's a naked head, no valves, etc.). So I pulled it back off (took some work), boxed it up and returned it.

Long story short, yesterday the replacement heat exchanger (from a different vender) came, and -- same thing!

So, I'm beginning to question my sanity.

Since the left one fits perfectly, but the two right ones I've tried barely slide over the studs, please remind me -- the left and right heads are interchangeable, correct?

I do realize that both heat exchangers are likely from the same manufacturer, even though I bought them from two different places. The previous one I tried had no sticker but the one that came yesterday is Jopex. Could be a bad run of right heat exchangers?

Or am I just being picky? Like, will the gap I see go away once I torque the nuts down and the freshly filed pipe ends bed in the new, annealed copper rings?

Basically, I want to make sure this is going to fit right before I tear the old stuff off my currently running Bus (which I'm taking camping this weekend regardless). Any ideas?

Thanks.
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1965 Beetle
1972 Westfalia

[busdaddy]

Yes, both heads are the same so it's the HE's fault, apparently thier jig for the RH ones is off.
No, torquing it down won't solve the problem, you'll have to employ large prybars down the pipes to pry them closer together, a scissor jack between them to spread them and/or a great big pipe wrench to twist them into position, after the slide on nicely file or belt sand the sealing ends so they are parallel and flat.

Damn, it sucks that you have to get all medevil like that on brand new parts
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[Amskeptic]

[aerosurfer]

Not making excuses for new parts.... but. When I swapped heads with my rebuild, even reusing my F-Pipes, I had to use some force with a bottle jack between them and some heat to get a straight fitment. It may just sadly be the minor fabrication you need
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Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)

[BruceJ]

[Wasted youth]

If you force it into place, the opposing force will always be there pressing against studs and other fasteners. Think about that.

Use heat on the incorrect sweep of the exhaust tubing going into the HE. Form it into place. Let it cool. Test the fit with your cylinder head. If you can't put it together with your bare hands, you can bet you will have leaks and other problems later after you force it into place.

Same poor manufacturing problem you are suffering, just a different location:

[wildDogPizza]

I had the same issue when I ran Dansk boxes. I'd have to torque them a certain way to get them to seal, but it was a strain on the connection between the cast flanges and the pipes that are brazed to them. Eventually the brazing will fail and you get leaks there. I braze welded them while they were on a spare head thinking it would correct the alignment, but they broke again a year or so later.

[scrivyscriv]

I can't comment specifically about the late bus heat exchangers by Dansk but I can say their early bay exhaust SUCKS just as much and for pretty much the same reasons. Things don't line up.
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Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help.

[SGKent]

steve your cat was upside down, (Really) I had the same issue until i reclocked it with the O2 bung up.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Wasted youth]

[BruceJ]

I had avoided the "name and shame", but here goes. The first HE I got was from cip1. I sent it back. A guy I spoke with there said he tried it against a head they had on hand and the there was nothing wrong with it. Let's just say, I beg to differ. Anyhow, I got store credit at least (it had been more than 30 days) but apparently the HE was put right back on the shelf for the next sucker, er, customer.

The one I got last week was from Bus Depot and like I said, same problem. I called them on my way up to camp Friday. I told him the issue and he put me on hold to talk to his manager. When he came back on the line, he admitted that it was indeed an issue and unless I wanted to tweak it, they would be glad to take it back. I appreciate his honesty, but it would have been nice to know before hand. I would expect small dents, scratches, imperfections, less than perfect castings, etc., from aftermarket stuff. But something that is all but unusable is another story. Maybe I'm just being naive.

So, I may indeed open up the bag of tricks (heat, brute force, etc.). But also keeping my eyes open for other HE alternatives. In the classifieds there are a couple of "NOS Dansk" HE's being offered. But I'm confused: aren't "NOS" and "Dansk" mutually exclusive?
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1965 Beetle
1972 Westfalia

[aerosurfer]

Or look for real oem used one
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Rebuild your own FI Harness..My Harness

77 Westy 2.0L Rockin and Rolling Resto!

72 Sportsmobile (sold)
79 Tran$porter... Parts car money machine (gone)

[BruceJ]

Ok, another update.

So, I sent the 2nd dud heat exchanger back. With all the time in the world, I decided well, I'll try a 3rd vendor. If that doesn't work, then I'll either find a used one or force a new (but defective) one into compliance.

I called Wolfsburg West. Not my usual source for Bay parts, but half the stuff on my Beetle came from them and, for the most part, they've done me okay.

I spoke to Rich, and told him that I'd already tried two others and was thinking about ordering from him, but I needed some questions answered first. He said what he had was made by JP/Dansk. Not good. I about gave up, but then I asked if he would be willing to send me some pics of the actual one he would send me. He promptly did. Then I asked him to take some measurements. He did that too. I was starting to be hopeful. Everything, to my surprise, looked pretty good.

So I asked him to sign the actual one he took photos of, and send it to me. Today I got it (with his signature!) and, lo and behold, it fits perfectly!

Same manufacturer, too, go figure. Only difference (aside from the fact it fits like it should) is the p/n. Most others have it as 021256092M, but Wolfburg West has 021255092M. Earlier production run, maybe? Regardless, it's a good 'un!
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1965 Beetle
1972 Westfalia

[Wasted youth]

Great news! Always nice to have good customer support, even better when the manufacturing process follows good craftsmanship... or at least you got lucky.

I was going to mention this earlier, but didn’t. I have a set of OE heat exchangers off a FI 2.0 engine. They were caked with greasy dirt, and the insides reeked of old burned oil. No way would I blast hot air inside my bus with those. So I cleaned them with the usual scraping, wire brush and solvent, etc. But what about the insides?

For that, I used my Oxy/Ace outfit with a Rosebud tip. Just stuck that in there to the point of near softening of the sheet metal, then changed it to the other end. The clouds of smoke filling my alleyway were quite amusing, but I effectively burned out all 40 years of crap inside the heater boxes. My neighbors closed their sliding patio door. I was surprised my how much burned, flaked crap shook out!

After the boxes cooled, I soaked them in a tub of detergent water, then hosed them out. When they dried, I rattle canned the outsides with high-temp grey exhaust header paint, then mill-filed the exhaust flanges nice and flat. I cannot say how effective this process was, because they are still waiting to be installed on the engine they are meant for.

[BruceJ]

I don't have that kind of setup, but one option for me might have been to drill out the spot welds that hold the clamshell together, and go from there. There's a thread somewhere here on that. In the meantime, I will certainly hang on to the old ones.
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1965 Beetle
1972 Westfalia