pushrod tube seal question T4 bus

[Lil Lulu]

Steve- I'll get that list together later today. Can't remember what the kit list says.

I'm sure the debate will go on endlessly like other ACVW issues.

RB
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'65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus

'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002

'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles

[SGKent]

lil Lulu - your sharing is very valued. If anything I said implied otherwise, it is my fault for choosing the wrong words.

EDIT: I just looked at the Bugme Video. It is late 2007 and he uses oil.

Maybe Jake could step in and clarify if his engine guy is sending out one thing and the website and Jake's comments another. Is it possible that the difference is T1 vs T4 engine types? I am sure that whatever Jake suggests is built on best practices and his observations of success vs failure.

I think but am not sure that the bug me video we have, who knows which version, is showing teflon sealant. I have heard there are some differences between the thinking in 2002 and 2010. That is why there is confusion and why I started this thread. Technically a good seal should not require more than engine oil but I think the 565 is considered just an added insurance against leaks and not a requirement.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[SGKent]

something just occured to me that could explain the difference. Jake builds or at least was building winning 914 racing motors for F Production last conversation I had with him. A racing motor is unlike a street motor in that no matter what one does, the forces involved will destroy bearings and rings in just a couple of races. They live their life at RPM's street motors seldom see let alone live it. Our FP and GP Fiat motors used to see 10,000 RPM at times. A F1 motor will see close to 20,000 RPM. While racing is a great proving ground, one wants to spend less time cleaning sealers etc each time the engine is torn down and more time doing R&D. It may be that for purposes of the T4 racing engines they are building that engine oil is best whereas on a street motor that may last 100,000 miles, the extra sealing insurance is suggested. Just an idea. Maybe if we are lucky Jake will drop byand answer the question on what he suggests on T4 BAY pushrod seals.

EDIT: I just looked at the Bugme Video. It is late 2007 and he uses oil.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Wildthings]

Been driving vehicles powered by T4 engines for the last two decades. Have always used the red and green seals. No leaks to date, just using oil on the seals during assembly. I do lightly file the sharp edges in the heads so that the seals do not get cut when the tubes are pushed in. IMO, keep your heads/engine from overheating and you shouldn't have pushrod seal problems.

[Randy in Maine]

I just use a little bit of Locktite 565 on the pushrod tube O rings and don't have any leaks so far with Camper Special.

[SGKent]

[SGKent]

Hi Randy - we were both tying. In his 2007 Bugme he shows using just oil and says you don't want to "glue them in place so you just want to use oil."

565 of course is not a glue. In some threads he has written he said use 565, and his store says the 565 is for the pushrod seals. Then L'il Lulu says he was told to use oil which agrees with the bugme video where Jake is assembling a T4 motor.

Of course the video differs with some of the other sealant instructions at his store too so who knows. The issue may be nothing more than whatever one is thinking at the time as long as it is non-hardening and doesn't mess up bearings etc.

I have a coin I am about to toss.......................
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Randy in Maine]

I have the video. I have the CS.

I asked Jake when I built the CS and he told me. I used the 565 on both seals.

[Jalabert]

I'm sorry if this counts as thread hijacking. I was just wondering if anyone had any feedback on removing pushrod tubes after they've been sealed with 565. I've replaced my seals just using oil and a couple are still leaking. My engine's only done 50k so I'll probably go another 20 before I overhaul it - which is far enough away to not want to put up with a leak but close enough that I'm already wondering how much of a git it'll be to strip down...
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http://thickrubber.blogspot.com/ Writing, Surfing, and Exploring NZ's deep south by VW...

'73 westy, 1700 type 4 with 34icts

[SGKent]

I've removed 565 from the case and other things using acetone. Denatured alcohol may work also.

BTW - after all the discussion and watching the bugme 2007 I used regular engine oil, a little red assembly lube to make it really slippery and easy to slide on, and the brown viton seals. Thank you to everyone who shared. I will post results back here in a few thousand. I did find that the brown viton are harder to push in than the black and green ones. I figure that if they need replacing ever it isn't that hard a job to do with the engine in the car. I used lock ring pliers on the inside to grab and push them in.

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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[SGKent]

[Randy in Maine]

Back in 2008 I think.

[SGKent]

Thanks Randy. I guess only Jake knows why in 2007 he says in his video "oil only" then in 2008 he says 565 to you then his guy tells Lil Lulu oil only then in 2010 his website says 565. I hoped he would drop by before I buttoned it up to share some logic on this but I tossed the coin and oil only won. If it leaks I'll pull them and try 565 next.......
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[airkooledchris]

[Wildthings]

Since this thread has been linked to recently I thought I would throw in a bit more about lubricating the pushrod tube o-rings. Once the engine is together and run for a while the pushrod tube o-rings are going to be lubricated primarily by oil no matter what was first used on them. I think the main reason for using teflon paste during assembly is that it eases the install of the tubes reducing the chance that they will be damaged. Particularly for someone who is impatient or lacks attention to detail, using teflon paste on the seals will help keep the o-rings from being pinched and/or torn during install.

[airkooledchris]

wow, 2 reply's in the last 8 years. I hope to buck that trend with this one. :p

If the teflon paste helps keep them from ripping on the way in when slightly pinched, then I think it's worth it.

It should be noted that if you use your emory cloth on those area's to remove any sharp edges - that should also help avoid tearing the rings on the way to being seated, but every little bit helps so if there's no downside to teflon paste - then I say go for it.