Inverter & ACR Wiring?

[DubNuts]

Ok, I've been wanting to do this for a long time but still confussed how to correctly wire this combination. Here's what I intend to install.

# House Battery
# "ACR" Automatic Charging Relay. Blue Sea or Yandina Battery Combiner
# 2000 Watt AC Power Inverter
# Isolate House Battery Powered devices. I think I read it should be @ Fuse #3
# Where to connect a Battery Charger / Maintainer so that both Batteries are charged & maintained while Vanagon is not is use.

Question if I use a Blue Sea 7610 it has two Posts Labeled A & B.. Is it as simple as providing a connection from the Starting Battery to Post "A" and The House / Utility Battery goes to Post "B"
Where or How does the Inverter connect? Should it be wire directly to the House / Utility Battery?
Any wiring Diagrams would be greatly appricated, I searched but didn't see what fit my install needs.

[thatvwbusguy]

The ACR hookup is as simple as you think it is. Use a heavy (8GA minimum, 4GA is better) wire from the positive post of the starting battery to post A on the ACR and then a wire from post B to the positive post on the auxiliary battery. Be sure to fuse the connections as close to each battery as possible to protect the circuit. A ground wire from the ACR to the chassis of the van completes the basic install.

I personally don't like inverters because they are typically quite inefficient and unnecessary (at least in my eyes). Just about anything you need to connect to an inverter while camping can be accomplished with 12V or propane fueled appliances with much better results. Pulling a 1500W (space heater / microwave etc) load from the house battery will kill it in a very short period of time. With that said, if you really want to install one, connect it directly to the auxiliary battery with whatever gauge wire the manufacturer recommends. Generally the connections will be directly to the battery posts and won't require anything more.

The fuse #3 modification only applies to 86-91 vans. Basically all you need to do is remove fuse #3 and then connect a fused wire (10GA is fine) from the positive post of the auxiliary battery to the positive wire of the cigar lighter. This can be accomplished with a simple splice wrapped in shrink wrap or with a 1/4" piggyback terminal. An alternative method is to run the wire from the auxiliary battery to the van's fuse block and use a male 1/4" terminal inserted into the lower portion of fuse #3 to make the connection.

A battery charger can be connected to the auxiliary battery directly and will charge both batteries once the charge in the auxiliary battery reaches the combining threshold (about 13V).

I have the BlueSeas ACR installed in my '85 Westy. It has given me years of trouble-free service and I highly recommend it. My system includes a 60W solar panel as well as a Battery Tender Plus to keep the batteries full while in winter storage. There are several photos of my system in the gallery, just search for submissions from thatvwbusguy.

I do have some rudimentary wiring diagrams saved on my desktop computer, but it is currently at the repair shop and may not be salvageable. If it is, I will try to upload some of them to the gallery.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[Jedi]

I use an inverter to power my Volcano by Storz & Bickel and it uses 120W on full setting. I use it on half of that. I need to dial my system in with a newer setup since I installed my Westfalia kit. I am making a new parts list now. I think Blue sea gets the vote around here for the best ACR!
_________________
1961 Westfalia SO23 Mango Green/Seagull grey
1961 Westfalia SO34 T/BW
1961 Westfalia SO34 SWR
1964 Westfalia SO33 pearl white
1965 Westfalia SO42 Velvet green
1986 Syncro Wolfram grey with black int GL
1986 Syncro Doka
1987 Syncro Sevana beige Adventurewagen
1987 syncro Sevana beige GL
1973 Pumpkin orange Thing
2 1963 Rag top bug's
1965 Manx
1970 Single cab
1971 combi
1990 Vanagon GL
2007 Audi A4 3.2L quattro

[buildyourown]

I just finished my install of this whole mess.
Using a fuse panel for everything connected to the aux battery, like the ones sold by bluesea, is a really easy way to keep track of what circuits go to what battery, and make sure all your runs are fused. When you add a new accessory, simply drop it onto that panel.
Functionally, I don't see any difference between the Bluesea and the Yandina combiners. They work the same. 2 wires, 1 connected to the pos of each battery. Simple and impossible to use wrong. Maybe the Yandina wins by an edge by having the ability to force combine or separate.

To thatvwbusguy:

I think your wire sizes are a little high. I know bigger is always better, but 10ga is overkill for the dash. It's on a 15a fuse, 14ga wire is perfectly fine. 12ga gives you some margin for safety.
Same with the ACR, power only flows through those wires during charging. Unless you have a massive diesel truck alternator, you aren't going to need anything bigger than 10ga

[thatvwbusguy]

What can I say, I am a "belt & suspenders" kinda guy when it comes to wiring... I encourage everyone else to be one too.

10GA wire between the batteries and the ACR is probably fine for most installers with a basic auxiliary system. Since I have a Zetec in both of my vans, the standard output for the alternator is 120A. I realistically know that it is highly unlikely that I will ever pull more than about 30-40A thru the ACR at any given time, even with a heavily depleted auxiliary battery bank (2 x Group 27 Deep Cycle), but I would much rather over-engineer the design up front than decide that I want to redo the whole project in a few months because my maximum charging rate was being limited by the amperage carrying capacity of the wire I chose.

Over the years I have seen a great many circuits heat up from running undersized wire (especially on stereo amplifiers and high power auxiliary lighting). Usually this comes from a friend calling me to take a look at his stereo and see if I can figure out what's wrong with it. As a result, I always go up at least one gauge from what the ampacity table says I need as a course of habit. The actual cost difference in wire is fairly negligible as compared to the hassle of melting a wire in an inaccessible area and creating a troubleshooting nightmare.

When you factor in the low quality / underspec wire that is becoming so common on the market today, this is even more impotant. I recently purchased 500' of AWG12 TXL automotive wire for use in my relay kits. When I inspected it, I found it to be neither AWG12 nor TXL. The copper conductor measured in at just under AWG15 and the housing was standard PVC, not crosslinked polyethelene. Needless to say it went right back to the vendor for a refund.

On my first foray into the auxiliary battery debacle, I ran the old 12GA wire from the fridge relay ('ala T.K.'s kit) and was very underwhelmed by the charging rate to the auxiliary battery. I would consider the output a trickle charge at best. Of course that is all some folks want or need, but I tend to be a little more obsessive when it comes to unlimited power while camping.

As I have posted before, I have installed and used both the Yandina and the Blue Seas ACR's in vans. The Blue Seas is physically beefier and is rated for more power than the Yandina for the same price, so it is a no-brainer in my book. In fact I have never seen any product from Blue Sea Systems that wasn't incredibly high quality. The only thing that I will say is better about the Yandina is that it is a bit smaller overall, so it can sneak into some tighter mounting spaces if that is a concern in your installation.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[jason_dury]

[Welchmaster]

[thatvwbusguy]

If it was my van, I would return all of the wiring to stock so that things would be easier to troubleshoot in the future. The fact that GoWesty recommends cutting wires and just putting some tape on them is pretty troubling, but you could easily make things a bit more safe for the longterm with some closed end crimp connectors that won't come loose with the high temps inside the van like tape will.

If everything is working well for you outside of the slow recharging rate, you could leave things as they are with the wiring running from the auxiliary battery to the fuse panel and just rework the wiring that will feed the ACR.

If you need some help figuring out what to keep and what to pull, just let me know and I will look thru the install instructions from the GW kit to see what connections will need to be addressed.

Whatever you decide to do, be sure to make some good notes so you will be able to hunt down any gremlins that could pop up in the future.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH


If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion.

[WireBarn]

Hi Jay,
Nate from WireBarn.com here. I was searching for some information on power inverters (troubleshooting a problem for a customer) when I ran across this thread. When I saw your comment on 12 TXL wire, I thought your name looked awfully familiar. What are the odds of that??

Anyway, you bought wire from us, but ours was the good stuff.

We must be the company you came to after you got the bad stuff.

Not sure if you've been buying from us lately, as I don't handle the day to day shipping any more here, but I hope you're still a customer.

EDIT: I looked through my emails and it was definitely you. Also, you were asking about wire on spools. We have tons of plastic spools we offer now and can put anything on a spool; just ask. I will be rolling out a caddy for shops soon where you can just order/reorder various spools. Maybe a 100' version and a 500' version.

We still sell USA made (all of our wire is 100% copper, Made in USA) GXL, TXL, SGX, SGT, EPDM Welding cable and our sizes range from 22 Gauge to 0000 (4/0) Gauge.
Click here to see our latest store. Might have changed a good bit since you were last there. https://www.WireBarn.com

I know this is a vanagon thread, but I have always loved the Eurovans.... I had a stick shift one from Canada originally that I got out of Detroit in 2007 or so for only $600. It as a 1997 model. It was a no start vehicle that the customer abandoned at a shop here in the US. I was not sure about titling a vehicle from Canada, but the secretary of state employee quietly told me to just say the title was lost and they issued me a US title for a Canadian vehicle. Strange driving with the KM/Hr on the speedo, but a great van. Turned out to be 4 bad capacitors in the ECM that I changed for $5 or so and I sold it for about $3,000 in the end.

I hope you're well!! Happy Eurovanning and Vanagonning!!

Nate at WireBarn.com

[Paulbeard]

[shagginwagon83]

[crazyvwvanman]

The heavier gauge has lower voltage drop when high amps are flowing but the drop is proportional to the total wire length. So having a short section of thinner wire has only a small effect on the total drop of a long overall wire run. Of course the smallest wire in the run still needs to be rated to carry the expected sustained amps.

Much of what I see people doing here seems to be choosing wire that is TOO LARGE for the actual job.

Mark

[Paulbeard]