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Turbo Diesel JX engine
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TransportersRus
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Location: Snellville, Georgia
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

Hello All,
This may or may not have been asked/answered before but I I am new to the T3 Diesels and need some guidance. Recently I purchased 2 T247 Dokas and imported them in to the US. Time to do some cleanup and maintenance. Of course they are similar and different. Here is what I have:
1988 w/ 1.6 JX TDI - orignal engine and install, only item i have noticed so far is fuel filter bypassed and an inline installed.
1990: w/1.6 TDI from a Golf MK2 (No air flter that is an another story)
This is a request for basics at this point.
Cooling: What anti-freeze should be used? Have looked and too many options.
Fuel Filter: Canister mounted on the side of compartment which is a US equivalent?
Oil Filter: Also US Equivalent
Air FIlter: Where can I find a Vanagon Air intake system for a TDI? Looking to purchase and realize i may have to alter to fit pipes due to the Golf motor.
Tail pipe: One of the pipes on the stock muffler is rusted out. Best place to order from?
Thanks for the help in advance.
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1990 Transporter T3 Doppelkabine
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:03 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

Sorry to see you haven't received any responses yet -- usually you can expect quick responses here. As I'll explain at the end of this post, people may felt disinclined to do what I'm about to do.

First of all, these are 1.6TD not TDI. You have the older indirect injection not direct injection (TDI) engines.

Second, some your questions are not easy to answer, especially since most of us are in the US, where the 1.6TD was never available!

I have a 1982 diesel van (1.6D) converted to a 1.9TD (AAZ).

As for coolant, my understanding is that these engines are not so particular. Don't mix orange and green antifreeze. As long as what you have is green, drain and use standard green ethylene glycol antifreeze.

I believe that the 1.6D vanagon diesel fuel filter is correct:

https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/12333685-74010?vehic...AsQAvD_BwE

Oil filter:

http://www.gowesty.com/product/filters/3131/oil-filter-?v=

If you don't have the air filter box, consider a Donaldson filter. (I use one and like it.)

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=596264

I don't think you'll find stock exhaust parts. You can measure the pipe and try to find something that matches. If I were you, I'd cut the rusted pipe and take it to a muffler shop and ask them really nicely to sell you something that matches. You might end up building a new exhaust. If you can't weld, you'll have to get a muffler shop to do the repair.

I hope this is helpful.

Like I said, some people may have read your post and chosen not to help. I say this out of a genuine desire to help, as I hope is evinced by the rest of my post: You will need to learn to find this kind of information on your own. The information you're requesting is some of the very easiest to find (using Google and the search function on this forum); and given that you'll be running a configuration that was never available in this country, you will need to learn a lot.

The 1.6TD was used in other vehicles sold in the US, but again, not in the vanagon/T3. However, there was a 1.6D (non turbo) vanagon available here (for less than two years!).

Some parts, like the filters I listed above, are the same in the 1.6D and 1.6TD. Additionally, some van-specific engine parts used in the US vanagon diesel may work for you, and some engine parts used in the gasoline vanagons may work. For instance, I would guess that your coolant system is the same as the gasoline vans of the same year, but I'm not sure. Probably the radiator and coolant pipes (running from the radiator to the motor) are the same as the same generation vans sold here. Your coolant hoses may be the same as those used in the 1983 diesel van, but OE parts are no longer available.

You can also try to source Canadian vanagon diesel parts.

Your injector pump for instance is specific to the vanagon 1.6TD. Supposing you needed a replacement, you could try to find one from Canada, or you could use a standard 1.6TD (or 1.9TD) pump, but it will require modification.

Your oil pan is also specific to your application, but you could use a 1.6D vanagon pan, modified for a turbo oil return.

I'm giving you some example to give you an idea of what you will need to do to maintain these motors in the US.

Because many parts are not easy to source I try to keep a collection of spares. I have done some traveling and plan to do a lot more, and wouldn't be comfortable if I didn't have a big collection of stuff at home that I could have shipped to me.

Lastly, it sounds like your motors may not have been well maintained and so will need a thorough going-over. The fact, for instance, that your fuel filter was replaced with an inline filter is worrying. Properly cleaned fuel is extremely important for the health of the injector pump and injectors. Was one of the motors run without an air filter? That would be bad, of course!

These motors can be very reliable, but they aren't too forgiving of mistakes and there's quite a steep learning curve. I have made a ton of mistakes in the process of learning these motors, and above all I've learned to be careful about making assumptions.

You should probably replace the timing belts as soon as possible, and at least take a close look at the belts before running the motors at all.

One example of one of the many things that is quite often done incorrectly: people overtighten the belts, which will damage the injector pump shaft bushing and intermediate shaft bearing. (Be sure that the timing belt covers are in place!)

Given what I know now, I wouldn't be comfortable running a used motor until I had gone through it pretty thoroughly. Please do a lot of research and take good care of these very rare machines!

Any chance you can post some pictures?
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clift_d
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:56 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

airfrtriad wrote:
Hello All,
This may or may not have been asked/answered before but I I am new to the T3 Diesels and need some guidance. Recently I purchased 2 T247 Dokas and imported them in to the US. Time to do some cleanup and maintenance. Of course they are similar and different. Here is what I have:
1988 w/ 1.6 JX TDI - orignal engine and install, only item i have noticed so far is fuel filter bypassed and an inline installed.
1990: w/1.6 TDI from a Golf MK2 (No air flter that is an another story)
This is a request for basics at this point.
Cooling: What anti-freeze should be used? Have looked and too many options.
Fuel Filter: Canister mounted on the side of compartment which is a US equivalent?
Oil Filter: Also US Equivalent
Air FIlter: Where can I find a Vanagon Air intake system for a TDI? Looking to purchase and realize i may have to alter to fit pipes due to the Golf motor.
Tail pipe: One of the pipes on the stock muffler is rusted out. Best place to order from?
Thanks for the help in advance.


Welcome.

Your 1.6TD from a Golf is likely to be an SB or RA code engine - more likely an SB as the RAs are less common. The air intake system, injection pump, manifolds, etc are entirely compatible with a JX system so you basically need to duplicate whatever you have installed on your JX van - assuming it is a stock installation.

The original coolant spec was G11 but this has been superceded and the current readily available spec is G12+ (red). There are newer coolant types G12++ and G13 which you could also use but in any case it should be compliant with VW specification TL-VW 774 A. It is best to stick to one coolant type and not mix. You'll need around 8 litres of concentrate to make around 16 litres of coolant.

The OEM JX air filter is a Mann & Hummel part - I believe the M&H part code is C13114/4 but in any case the VW code is 060 129 620. Maybe contact M&H in the US to find a stockist?

The OEM JX fuel filter is again a Mann & Hummel part - M&H part code WK842/3 - VW code 191 127 401 C. Having said that, you don't really need to stick to the standard fuel filter as anything decent should be fine. We've recently replaced the stock VW fuel filter on our JX with something more hardcore from Parker Racor to prevent some fuel contamination issues we've encountered in the past.

OEM JX oil filter - M&H part code W940/25 - VW code 068 115 561 B

With regard to part stockists, you'll have to get advice from people who know the suppliers on your side of the pond. If you get stuck however, I would recommend trying Brickwerks in the UK or Bernd Jaeger in Germany. For specialist diesel engine bits, tools, etc you should also try Diesel Kontor in Germany.

If you need a copy of the service sections for the JX as PDFs ping me a PM and I'll send you a link.
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nekto
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

first; airfrtriad, the injection pumps on 1.6 turbo diesel engines other than the JX are functionally compatible, but won't physically fit where the JX engine does.
i am not familiar with the engine compartment on the Doka, but on the transporter, the aneroid capsule built inside a casting on top of the more common TD pump will hit the engine compartment cover. this is why that function was moved to a capsule mounted on the side for a lower profile.

now, back to my ongoing problems.
i finally had enough weather that was warm enough that i was able to get the head off the AAZ block. three cylinders had mouse droppings inside. one bore is discolored, but the other three look serviceable.
the grinding noise is gone when i roll over the crank. that suggest the grinding noise was entirely in the head.
i splurged on this block because i wanted to come as close to new engine reliability as i could. obviously, that horse left the barn a long time ago.
i don't have any old school automotive shops anywhere near here that can disassemble the head, let alone work on it. i certainly isn't anything i can do. i have zero access to the tools and equipment required.
number 4 cylinder shows discoloration. black marks that my experience tells me are are oxidation. the surface is smooth to the touch. the best guess my experience with 1.6 engines tells me that No 4 will be weaker than the other 3 relatively soon. eventually, the engine won't catch on that cylinder, and it won't make as much power. that could happen in 2K miles, or 25K.
i am not sure i am motivated to continue with this engine. i can't work on the head, other than removing the cam.
if any of you reading this has a use for the head, would it be worth paying me half what a used head costs for you to take it and repair it for your use?
how about the block?
i slathered the bores with bearing grease to prevent any further damage.
anyone interested, please contact me by PM here.
anyone who has a better solution, please do the same.
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chrissev2
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

RE: " first; airfrtriad, the injection pumps on 1.6 turbo diesel engines other than the JX are functionally compatible, but won't physically fit where the JX engine does.
i am not familiar with the engine compartment on the Doka, but on the transporter, the aneroid capsule built inside a casting on top of the more common TD pump will hit the engine compartment cover. this is why that function was moved to a capsule mounted on the side for a lower profile. "

- simple solution to this is cut a hole in the cover, so the pump top fits through. Then use a cake pan to cover the hole, held in place with stick on sound deadener.

-motor issues: Have the block rebuilt and buy a new head. The heads cost around $500.00 US.

This is the head: https://www.hansautoparts.com/AAZCompleteHead.aspx

Block rebuild will set you back around $1500.00 or so.

So for 2 grand you get a brand new motor, good for about 400,000 miles. It's worth the money.
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HBB
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

chrissev2 wrote:


This is the head: https://www.hansautoparts.com/AAZCompleteHead.aspx



Take a long, hard look at some of the reviews of this vendor before buying anything from them.
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HBB
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

clift_d wrote:
The original coolant spec was G11 but this has been superceded and the current readily available spec is G12+ (red). There are newer coolant types G12++ and G13 which you could also use but in any case it should be compliant with VW specification TL-VW 774 A. It is best to stick to one coolant type and not mix. You'll need around 8 litres of concentrate to make around 16 litres of coolant.


Pentofrost NF is a G11 spec, and is usually in stock at the major chain autoparts stores.
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

HBB wrote:
chrissev2 wrote:


This is the head: https://www.hansautoparts.com/AAZCompleteHead.aspx



Take a long, hard look at some of the reviews of this vendor before buying anything from them.


Yes, seriously.

New heads should go for around $1000.
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HBB
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

zuhandenheit wrote:
HBB wrote:
chrissev2 wrote:


This is the head: https://www.hansautoparts.com/AAZCompleteHead.aspx



Take a long, hard look at some of the reviews of this vendor before buying anything from them.


Yes, seriously.

New heads should go for around $1000.


There's a 13-page thread on Hans Auto Parts (the same vendor goes by a bunch of different names, btw) over on TDI Club:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=320500
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nekto
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

chrissev2 wrote:
RE: -motor issues: Have the block rebuilt and buy a new head. The heads cost around $500.00 US.

This is the head: https://www.hansautoparts.com/AAZCompleteHead.aspx

Block rebuild will set you back around $1500.00 or so.

So for 2 grand you get a brand new motor, good for about 400,000 miles. It's worth the money.


the brand new long block cost me $3500 plus shipping, and i could hardly afford that. i don't have another 2K to rebuild a brand new block. i am stuck with what i have.
i was able to get the head to my friend with the real shop space and the large pile of experience.
it looks like only one valve was badly stuck; exhaust on No 4 cylinder. enough water got in to lightly 'corrosion weld' the valve lifter to the head. the other valves are functioning fine after applying some penetrating lubricant.
all the 'old school' mechanics i have consulted recommend cleaning the discolored cylinder wall with crocus cloth. it took a while to chase some down. hardware stores don't stock it around here any more.
the disheartening thing is the body rot that is showing up. there are strong indications that water condensed on the fiberglass insulation, then ended up sitting in the bottom of the framework the insulation was packed in. the bottom of the sliding door has rust holes, and the rear panel on the same side is rusted through across the seam at the bottom of the insulation.
i do not have the resources to repair any of that. no skill, no experience, no tools, no money.
i am thinking that my camper might be a lost cause.
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nekto
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

with continuing health problems, working conditions that range from horrible to impossible, and rust eating away at the body, i have come to the realization that it is past time for me to abandon the camper.
i don't see any possibility that i will get enough selling it as a project to make it worth my time or energy.
so the old horse will be parted out.
if anyone watching this thread wants to contact me about anything they are interested in, by all means, contact me here (by PM).
it may be a while before i am up to posting an add.
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nekto
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

well, posting an ad wasn't worth the effort. i got one offer for the 5 speed gearbox that was equal to the asking price of a 4 speed with no bell housing.
it was about half of what the rebuild cost me.
numbers like that don't even make it worth it to open the toolbox. i would accept the physical pain it would cost me to remove the transmission, for a reasonable offer, but i do not consider the one offer i got reasonable.
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adv rider
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

Just found this thread...lots of research/reading to do. I recently purchased an 82 Westy with 1.6 td, 5spd. I assumed it was the original engine because the previous owner was in military, and brought it back over from Italy.

Well....I just realized it might have been converted to TD, Is that a common swap? I have to replace headgasket, so it's learning time....Ive never owned,let alone worked on a diesel.
Any good advice on newbie headgasket replacement?
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Last edited by adv rider on Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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epowell
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

adv rider wrote:

Any good advice on newbie headgasket replacement?


Here is where I did mine https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681531&highlight=

...and for a greater part of everything else you'll need to know read this... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640611&highlight=
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adv rider
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
adv rider wrote:

Any good advice on newbie headgasket replacement?


Here is where I did mine https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681531&highlight=

...and for a greater part of everything else you'll need to know read this... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640611&highlight=


Thanks, I got some research to do
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nekto
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

can anyone help me contact Canadian High Tops?
i was given more than $3000 that paid for a top, but was never able to pick it up. now i can't contact them because they require an app on their "contact us".
my computer doesn't have any apps that will work.
(i have old computer equipment)
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Gruppe B
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

His email is right on his webpage
[email protected]
http://canadianhightops.ca/

You can also PM him through Thesamba. Here is is thread regarding his hightops.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=395549
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nekto
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Turbo Diesel JX engine Reply with quote

Gruppe B wrote:
His email is right on his webpage

thanks for the pointer.
this dyslexic completely missed it.
(it was hiding in plain sight)
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