| Author |
Message |
gm4lnch
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Denver, Co
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
 |
|
So I have been at my 1972 Squareback for almost 18 months trying to save the fuel injections and can never seem to get a break. I met one of the POs, there are at least 2 owners between when he built the car and when I got it. He rebuild the motor and says if it hasn't been changed its a 1776 with a 110 cam. I know this will cause an issue running the factory FI so is there a way to know if its a 1600 or 1776? Or a way to know if it has a factory cam or bigger cam without tearing the motor down or out of the car?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sqrbckguy38
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2004
Posts: 415
Location: Tooele, ut
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
With minor adjustments, the stock Fi will run the 1776 and sometimes even bigger. The issue you run into though is there is no real way to know what size the engine is that's simple.
Not to say it's not possible. I have an idea, see about renting one of those scope cams. Remove a spark plug and check the Piston crown. It should have a number stamped into it that tells what the displacement is. There are only several sizes of pistons and cylinders, which is easy to determine.
_________________
It's not the fall that hurts, it's the sudden stop at the bottom.
69 Square needs love, even after 15 years
70 Fasty former dd, now my daughter's
67 Beetle, Opal |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
| Sqrbckguy38 wrote: |
With minor adjustments, the stock Fi will run the 1776 and sometimes even bigger. The issue you run into though is there is no real way to know what size the engine is that's simple.
Not to say it's not possible. I have an idea, see about renting one of those scope cams. Remove a spark plug and check the Piston crown. It should have a number stamped into it that tells what the displacement is. There are only several sizes of pistons and cylinders, which is easy to determine. |
It will run a 1776....and can actually run ANY displacement you want with injector changes.....its not the electronics that are the limitation. Its the intake plenum, runners and TB size.
1776 is maximum with the runners, plenum and TB. Yes.....I could force it to run somethiny larger.....but with so much power and throttle response and probably overheating......there would be no benefit from having a larger engine with the stock injection.
The 100 cam is what will prevent you the most from running properly. It is not primarily a lift or duration issue. It's an intake valve timing issue. If it uses the same timing and lobe xenter or very close.....as stock....you can run it. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gm4lnch
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Denver, Co
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
| So I might be able to see what pistons I have if I can get a scope and am luck enough to not have any build up on top of pistons. But how can I know what cam is in it? I have no desire to build the type 3 motor to any bigger size, if I wanted bigger I would EJ22 swap it. I am just trying to get a car I can drive more than 2 or 3 miles at a time before I have to let it cool off. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
| gm4lnch wrote: |
| So I might be able to see what pistons I have if I can get a scope and am luck enough to not have any build up on top of pistons. But how can I know what cam is in it? I have no desire to build the type 3 motor to any bigger size, if I wanted bigger I would EJ22 swap it. I am just trying to get a car I can drive more than 2 or 3 miles at a time before I have to let it cool off. |
As a correction to my eariier post....what I was trying to point out was that going larger than about a 1776 can be done with the stock manifolds.....not much larger.....but to do so....even if the engine runs smoothly it loses a lot of potential power because it starves for air.
Pull the oil pump out and look at the end of the cam for markings.
The stock cam was set up well timing wise....and as others have noted in the past....many stock type 1 replacement cams available also have largely the same timing. Check the book to see intake and exhausg valve opening and closing points in degrees. Then if you can identify the cam you have in it..... check the manufacturers site for cam timing and compare.
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vwjetboat
Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2017
Posts: 1732
Location: Florida
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
| look at a stock case.. then look at one cut for 90.5 you will notice how close the cut is to the head studs.. then look at yours.. its a noticeable difference.. and can be seen just by looking under the motor without taking any thing apart |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
If your spark plugs all look like this you have engine problems but not necessarily engine size problems? After 18 months you haven't made much progress & it's overheating after 2-3 miles, so take it to a VW mechanic. Hopefully you can keep it running good he gets it running good? If you insist on fixing it yourself, then buy a compression tester & test all 4 cylinders for compression to get started. 
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jorel_dj
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2007
Posts: 22
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Sqrbckguy38 wrote: |
With minor adjustments, the stock Fi will run the 1776 and sometimes even bigger. The issue you run into though is there is no real way to know what size the engine is that's simple.
Not to say it's not possible. I have an idea, see about renting one of those scope cams. Remove a spark plug and check the Piston crown. It should have a number stamped into it that tells what the displacement is. There are only several sizes of pistons and cylinders, which is easy to determine. |
It will run a 1776....and can actually run ANY displacement you want with injector changes.....its not the electronics that are the limitation. Its the intake plenum, runners and TB size.
1776 is maximum with the runners, plenum and TB. Yes.....I could force it to run somethiny larger.....but with so much power and throttle response and probably overheating......there would be no benefit from having a larger engine with the stock injection.
The 100 cam is what will prevent you the most from running properly. It is not primarily a lift or duration issue. It's an intake valve timing issue. If it uses the same timing and lobe xenter or very close.....as stock....you can run it. Ray |
I'm new to this FI stuff, but with regards to the 100 cam; would running 1.25:1 ration rockers help with the starving the issue? Perhaps also larger valves in general to help air flow? Like I said, I'm new to this stuff so maybe that creates other problems? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22413
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
| jorel_dj wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Sqrbckguy38 wrote: |
With minor adjustments, the stock Fi will run the 1776 and sometimes even bigger. The issue you run into though is there is no real way to know what size the engine is that's simple.
Not to say it's not possible. I have an idea, see about renting one of those scope cams. Remove a spark plug and check the Piston crown. It should have a number stamped into it that tells what the displacement is. There are only several sizes of pistons and cylinders, which is easy to determine. |
It will run a 1776....and can actually run ANY displacement you want with injector changes.....its not the electronics that are the limitation. Its the intake plenum, runners and TB size.
1776 is maximum with the runners, plenum and TB. Yes.....I could force it to run somethiny larger.....but with so much power and throttle response and probably overheating......there would be no benefit from having a larger engine with the stock injection.
The 100 cam is what will prevent you the most from running properly. It is not primarily a lift or duration issue. It's an intake valve timing issue. If it uses the same timing and lobe xenter or very close.....as stock....you can run it. Ray |
I'm new to this FI stuff, but with regards to the 100 cam; would running 1.25:1 ration rockers help with the starving the issue? Perhaps also larger valves in general to help air flow? Like I said, I'm new to this stuff so maybe that creates other problems? |
It's the intake manifold set up that IS the limiting factor. Yes cam choice can have an effect on it too. But it's mostly a case of not being able to feed the engine more air.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gm4lnch
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Denver, Co
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Unknown engine displacement, 1776 FI? |
|
|
| So changed direction and desired to Subaru swap the car. It now has a ej22 in the Squareback. I hope to do a write up on it once it is totally finished. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
