Anyone struggle getting front wheel bearing seal in? (2WD)

[IdahoDoug]

I've been doing wheel bearings for more than 40 years by hand, and yesterday I could not get a new wheel bearing seal back in the front hub after packing and inserting new races and bearings.

I tried tapping it in with a brass hammer and it seemed a touch too large. It fought me and I gave up and took it to the press where I pressed it in perfectly square. When I pulled the hub out for a look, the seal had gone in very crooked. It looked like it was too tight and suddenly one end snapped in. That's about as perfect a way of pushing a seal in perfectly square and it didn't go.

I seem to recall this has happened to me before where there were two VERY close diameters and I fought to put a seal in, and I've also experienced the opposite where a seal went in too easily and made me uneasy. These on other vehicles.

So, I'm asking the group - has anyone experienced this? Are there two hubs or seals that are very close in the Vanagon world, and how do I differentiate and get the right one?

Thanks.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[shagginwagon83]

I bought my kit from VC. I used a bearing press kit? It's like a punch with a round disk on the end of it. But I could not get it to sit 100% flush with the outer lip. A part of it was too deep. I used a pick tool with a 90 degree or right angle end to pull the too deep part up. And yeah give it a minute cause I put one in and a minute later it popped out.

ABN Bearing Race and Seal Bush Driver Set with Carrying Case – Master/Universal Kit for Automotive Wheel Bearings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GVQOSA4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_SX2tBbEXJPMSD
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[kourt]

From whom did you get the bearing seal? I ask because I have received incorrect seals multiple times from various providers. All were fixed with a phone call, but it was annoying.

kourt

[IdahoDoug]

I got it from my favorite vendor and I've got a call in there (I'll share what I learn for the group - this can't be first time it's happened in our world) and its an Elring 349.855 with listed dimensions of 55X68/8.5. Looks and feels like a very high quality seal - no flex of internal steel despite my abuse, the outer rubber layer is ribbed and feels properly thick, etc.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[IdahoDoug]

Hmm - thanks Brandon. You reminded me I have a seal driver kit for my press in a suitcase under the work bench I may/will give it a try with that, but still interested in the tribal knowledge because others would never be able to get this in by the side of the road or with the normal process of tapping it in with a hammer.

The other thought I have is to put it in with the press completely dry and perhaps then it will stay square.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Wildthings]

If it is the correct seal you should be able to set the one side of the seal in at least half way and then beat on the other side of the seal at about a 45° angle with a hammer. This will usually encourage a seal to go right in.

You can also set the seal flat on the hub, lay a 2x4 over it and give it a firm blow with a 2# hammer.

[danfromsyr]

I use the block of wood technique and YES one was a bit of a pain to get in, chased it around the bore for quite some time.
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[DanHoug]

take a look at this... drill down thru the text and it shows this is for seal 251 407 641A, the correct vanagon seal. but the Elring PN is 349.844

https://www.amazon.com/Elring-349844-Volkswagen-Transporter-Vanagon/dp/B006DJNA0Y
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-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[hkunstmann]

I had similar difficulty. What I did is put the inboard bearing in, start the seal and reinstalled the axle assembly, install the front bearing washer and nut. Torque down. The seal will be aligned to help the installation. Undo nut and remove the axle assembly. You'll find the seal isn't all the way installed but far enough it won't pop out. Slowly tap in it till its flush, working around the seal circle like. Just make sure the inboard bearing is already packed with grease. Won't be able to get it once the seal is installed.

[IdahoDoug]

I got it almost in flush with the press today dry (wiped dry - not sterile with brake cleaner) but it shaved some rubber off the outside. Then I put it on the ground and went to get my brass hammer. Came back and it had popped out.

Does anyone have any clarity on "earlier" vs "later" vanagon hubs? Somewhere in the back of my mind there is a slight difference. I've salvaged a few and recall that they had a different "shoulder" look to the rotor casting - like the wheel contact surface was wider. Comments?
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[riceye]

[Eric_Taylor]

I did both front's recently and had the same problem on the passenger side. I can't remember exactly how we got it started, but what I noticed was that the seal seemed a bit oversized. The one on the drivers side went in by hand, no problem, easy as pie. This one was just slightly bigger and ended up tearing a bit on the outter part of the seal, but went in. I'm not thrilled about it, but it didn't tear a surface that touches the bearing or hub, so I was comfortable with it, but we shall see. Glad to know I'm not the only one who has gone through this.

[Vanagon Nut]

It sounds like you've done far more bearing/seal jobs than me so I doubt this is the issue but.....

On my first Vanagon front bearing/seal job, I managed to get grease on the seal OD which in turn caused it to work its' way out after it was installed. I cleaned the rotor metal surface with brake parts cleaner, cleaned grease off the seal best I could, the seal then stayed in place.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[MarkWard]

This should add to the confusion. I am looking at my old ETKA.

281 407 641 C F >> 24A 0024 011

251 407 641 A F 24A 0024 012 >>

Unfortunately there are no seal dimensions. But there appears to be a change depending on chassis number.
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[IdahoDoug]

OK, so this is what I did to get it successfully in place (at least it's still in from 30 minutes ago):

All of us use this trick and the promptly forget about it in a memory cycle that goes back a long time. I set up the press with the rotor/hub sitting there, the press cycled down to the right height, and popped the seal in the freezer. An hour later, I grabbed it and ran to the garage, bashing my shin on a camp box on the way, and it went in like Flynn*

Thanks for your support. I think one of my rotors may be the prior chassis size and the other the newer chassis size. It's not a huge change, so if you run into this - that's how its done!

Doug


*A reference to famous ladies man Errol Flynn
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[crazyvwvanman]

Yes, but the 24A means the change occurred in the 80 model year. Vin 024 111 so only a couple months of the first T3 came with different parts. The other part changed at the same time was the part that the inner lip of the seal spins on.

Another change noted on that VW Parts diagram was the outer bearing changed during 24-E which means during 84 model year. That was when VW increased the diameter of the front spindle, meaning a bearing with a larger inner hole was needed.

Mark

[jberger]

FWIW I use the old seal as a driver for the new. Plate or lumber over for whacking or pressing. I also take the old bearing, remove balls and inner race, grind the OD slightly and use as pressing tool for new bearing. I do quite a few of the same bearing sizes.. so it pays to keep them hanging around.

J

[IdahoDoug]

Yeah, I've also heard take the old race and cut through it. Now it's easy to pop back out. Having a ground one on hand is good advice. My problem is I have about 16 different races in my life to take care of and I don't have a grinder! So I get by starting the new race with an old race and just when it starts to bind I pull it out. Tap if you slightly overdo it. Then I use a punch to push the race to the bottom, at which point your hammer blows go from a dull sound to a bright ringing. That's the bottom!
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[shagginwagon83]

Just curious - and to make sure - but should these seals go in 100% dry and clean when installing? I am about to do transaxle final drive seals and the seal there is very similar to the wheel bearings seals.
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Brandon
"Jo Ann" - '83.5 Westfalia EJ22e w/Peloquin
Instagram @joannthevan

[tencentlife]

Yes, seals like this are best installed with the outer ribbed surface and the receiving housing dry.

Did the OP ever compare the embossed sizes on the two seals to compare? That would have told him he had the wrong part right quick.
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