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Keith Park Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006 Posts: 225 Location: Clifton Park NY
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Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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Hi,
Ive got the billet tuna can to put on my GA case,
dumb question as it came with no instructions,
on the pickup, does the ridge go up or down? and, what holds
the pickup extension on the pickup? does it just push on? what keeps it from falling down? I know with the T1 VW they are brazed or clamped on.
Thanks
Keith |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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Keith Park wrote: |
Hi,
Ive got the billet tuna can to put on my GA case,
dumb question as it came with no instructions,
on the pickup, does the ridge go up or down? and, what holds
the pickup extension on the pickup? does it just push on? what keeps it from falling down? I know with the T1 VW they are brazed or clamped on.
Thanks
Keith |
Whose billet tuna can?
Is it this one?
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/index.php?t193258.html
Post some pictures. From the pictures in that thread...I would assume that the ridge or ledge on the pickup tube extension goes toward the tuna can. It would act as a flange to keep the nut from crushing the can lid inward and would effectively sandwich the tube between the flange and the lid keeping it immobile.
Ray |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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Don't bother with the ext. as if your oil is that low you are better off having the oil light flash you when you corner or stop quickly so you can add some more oil, as that's what cools the motor as well as lubes it. |
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Keith Park Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006 Posts: 225 Location: Clifton Park NY
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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its one of these
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Keith Park Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006 Posts: 225 Location: Clifton Park NY
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Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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Oh it would starve with the oil FULL. at least without the windage tray,
it seemed better with the tray back in but this gives me some additional comfort as long sweeping turns on the interstate were a problem before.
Keith |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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Starbucket wrote: |
Don't bother with the ext. as if your oil is that low you are better off having the oil light flash you when you corner or stop quickly so you can add some more oil, as that's what cools the motor as well as lubes it. |
What?
You do realize that intermittent sucking up of air bubbles...even only a handfull a minute.....causes the oil to turn to foam....and then multiplies the problem exponentially...dont you?
This is precisely why leaking seals at the pickup tube to case joint is KNOWN to kill both type 1 based and type 4 engines. Same effect. Even intermittent sucking of air bubbles can kill an engine.
Also this same effect from occasional air bubble ingestion is a known killer of other engines in many vehicles.....even new ones. Take a look on YouTube and search for Mercedes E55 oil pump o-ring failure.
The Tuna can mod in hard cornering type 4 tracked engines ....is a well proven mod....solving a well proven failure mode.
Ray |
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Keith Park Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006 Posts: 225 Location: Clifton Park NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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I can say that in only a Squareback, this engine would pop an oil light with a full case on long sweeping interstate turns without the windage tray. Surprised me at how the T4 would suck its sump dry so much easier than a T1, with so much MORE oil.
I figured out the installation, this can is meant to be used with the strainer, the hole in the strainer bottom needs to be enlarged so the bolt will pass thru, then that ridge presses against the spring loaded screen and that
holds the pickup extension from coming off.
The lower bolt also leaks oil... Crap! But at least I know what NOT to do
to seal it... |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
Starbucket wrote: |
Don't bother with the ext. as if your oil is that low you are better off having the oil light flash you when you corner or stop quickly so you can add some more oil, as that's what cools the motor as well as lubes it. |
What?
You do realize that intermittent sucking up of air bubbles...even only a handfull a minute.....causes the oil to turn to foam....and then multiplies the problem exponentially...dont you?
This is precisely why leaking seals at the pickup tube to case joint is KNOWN to kill both type 1 based and type 4 engines. Same effect. Even intermittent sucking of air bubbles can kill an engine.
Also this same effect from occasional air bubble ingestion is a known killer of other engines in many vehicles.....even new ones. Take a look on YouTube and search for Mercedes E55 oil pump o-ring failure.
The Tuna can mod in hard cornering type 4 tracked engines ....is a well proven mod....solving a well proven failure mode.
Ray
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What!! What do you think is happening when the oil level drops below where the extension connects? I'll tell you air bubbles will be sucked into the motor UNLESS it is BRAZED together. A little air once in a while will have no effect as bearings do not instantly run dry, the cam doesn't instantly run dry, the pistons, valves, etc. do not instantly run dry. Not sure what you are smoking but only prolonged lack of oil will kill a motor Do you know what oil looks like as it leaves a Turbo Charger? Dirty whipped cream and it goes right into the sump to be sucked into the engine oil gallery. You don't see all the Turbo charged cars going in for new motors under warranty do you? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21519 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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Starbucket wrote: |
raygreenwood wrote: |
Starbucket wrote: |
Don't bother with the ext. as if your oil is that low you are better off having the oil light flash you when you corner or stop quickly so you can add some more oil, as that's what cools the motor as well as lubes it. |
What?
You do realize that intermittent sucking up of air bubbles...even only a handfull a minute.....causes the oil to turn to foam....and then multiplies the problem exponentially...dont you?
This is precisely why leaking seals at the pickup tube to case joint is KNOWN to kill both type 1 based and type 4 engines. Same effect. Even intermittent sucking of air bubbles can kill an engine.
Also this same effect from occasional air bubble ingestion is a known killer of other engines in many vehicles.....even new ones. Take a look on YouTube and search for Mercedes E55 oil pump o-ring failure.
The Tuna can mod in hard cornering type 4 tracked engines ....is a well proven mod....solving a well proven failure mode.
Ray
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What!! What do you think is happening when the oil level drops below where the extension connects? I'll tell you air bubbles will be sucked into the motor UNLESS it is BRAZED together. A little air once in a while will have no effect as bearings do not instantly run dry, the cam doesn't instantly run dry, the pistons, valves, etc. do not instantly run dry. Not sure what you are smoking but only prolonged lack of oil will kill a motor Do you know what oil looks like as it leaves a Turbo Charger? Dirty whipped cream and it goes right into the sump to be sucked into the engine oil gallery. You don't see all the Turbo charged cars going in for new motors under warranty do you? |
Who said ANYTHING about bearings going dry? Thats not the mechanism.
Air being sucked in.... produces foam in the oil...foam causes pump cavitation....ALWAYS.
Enough cavitation leads to more foam which leads to more cavitation....and foamed oil...has LOUSY FILM STRENGTH...which cannot produce a hydrodynamic wedge in a plain bearing. So what seems like still being a film of oil is actually a film of foam with no metal separation ability.
It causes metal to metal contact. This is ancient and well proven information. Its been a known issues since the first cars.
While brazing would be ideal.....a good clamped joint with a seal or a machined surface will work fine. Example....your oil pickup tube is not brazed to the case....and its working...right?
Ray |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4025 Location: WA
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: 2L 914 tuna can install |
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Point taken. The real fix for these cars is to convert to a Dry Sump and use the 911 Oil Tank as the 914-6 used. No more foam or sucking air and a large oil supply. |
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