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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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 Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| Blue69Baja wrote: |
Don't go modifying anything...
The inner bevil spacer that is the first thing you put on the stub axle has to be facing the right direction... The bevil has to be towards the trans...
The next thing is that the Ball bearings go to the inside towards the trans and the roller bearings go to the drum side...
Check these first...
The distance from the stub axle flange and the swing arm are not determined by the spacer or anything from the inner bearing out towards the drum.
The inner spacer/bevel in, the inner ball bearing are what controls the inner clearance.
If the roller bearing is on the wrong side, towards the trans then you will have the problem you have described.
Confusing?
I was, years ago when I was told by a major VW parts/repair shop here in Sac that the inner and outer axle bearings are both rollers... OMG! No shitski!
Jim |
Yes, Blue69Baja is right. The inner bearings are ball bearings ( # 113 501 283 ).
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Red5
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2017
Posts: 111
Location: Burlington, Vt
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:28 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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It is confusing  . The axle is a stock type 1 (or should be; is there a way to confirm?). The ball bearings are closest to the transmission; rollers are on the other side. According to your description, the spacers are in correctly too  |
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sawed off
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2016
Posts: 428
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:53 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| Just replaced the rear bearngs in mine. I had 1 bad axle and replaced it with good used one. I have no play difference between both sides, axles should be interchangable. The only play you will feel is that of the ball bearing and distance between inner bearing shoulder and snap ring. Are you sure inner seal is seated? |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| Red5 wrote: |
| It is confusing . The axle is a stock type 1 (or should be; is there a way to confirm?). The ball bearings are closest to the transmission; rollers are on the other side. According to your description, the spacers are in correctly too |
Does your stub axle look like this one ?
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1065
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:41 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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The only thing that controls the Stub axle flange to swing arm distance is that Ball bearing and that spacer #2 in the picture posted by Dark Earth...
Nothing else sets that distance....
If you leave out everything but #2 and drive the axle into the ball bearing race the distance will be set.
Now if somehow you got a different Ball bearing and the width is smaller then the stub axle will drive further in... Thus rubbing on the seal.
That Ball bearing should be locked in place when you put in the C clip..It should not move in the slightest in and out!
Can not imagine that you have a different Stub axle.. As you can see they the same for everything 68 - 77
https://www.jbugs.com/product/16-2308.html?gclid=C...woQAvD_BwE
Jim
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69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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That jbugs stub axle is an empi stub axle. It's more rounded behind the CV joint as opposed to the stock VW one that is more flat in that area. That's the area where it's probably rubbing against his trailing arm.
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1065
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| Dark Earth wrote: |
That jbugs stub axle is an empi stub axle. It's more rounded behind the CV joint as opposed to the stock VW one that is more flat in that area. That's the area where it's probably rubbing against his trailing arm. |
I have not observed/experienced or read that with any non OEM Stub Axle...
I would think that if that were an issue we would have lot's of threads about the rubbing... Just saying.
That said, anything can happen...
Easy enough to measure.
Put #2 beveled spacer on the axle and measure the distance from the bearing race mating surface of the spacer to the cv axle flange.
If the poster measures it I can get my junk out and measure a couple of them just to check.
Jim
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69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| Blue69Baja wrote: |
Put #2 beveled spacer on the axle and measure the distance from the bearing race mating surface of the spacer to the cv axle flange.
Jim |
That's a good idea !! I do think the difference will be in thousandth's … maybe .020" - .030".
Red5 could also put a temporary test shim between the ball bearing and the inner spacer to see if the rubbing goes away.
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1065
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:36 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| Dark Earth wrote: |
| Blue69Baja wrote: |
Put #2 beveled spacer on the axle and measure the distance from the bearing race mating surface of the spacer to the cv axle flange.
Jim |
That's a good idea !! I do think the difference will be in thousandth's … maybe .020" - .030".
Red5 could also put a temporary test shim between the ball bearing and the inner spacer and see if the rubbing goes away. |
First I would measure the Ball bearing width... If too narrow =rubbing.
And the bearing will not be locked in the swing arm. It will move in and out.
I would be measuring the width of the #2 bevel spacer and the bearing..
A shim would work to see if the axle stops rubbing, but we still need to find out what is wrong!
There is no need to put any of the swing arm stuff in place... Just the axle, inner bearing, clip and beveled spacer... Tap it in and see if it rubs...
As a note the inside seal needs to be flush with the swing arm It it protrudes out more than about .030 it will rub on the stub axle flange.
Jim
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69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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Red5
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2017
Posts: 111
Location: Burlington, Vt
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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Lots of good ideas here. I should be able to try them out tonight add let you guys what I find. If not, I'll be away until Monday  |
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Red5
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2017
Posts: 111
Location: Burlington, Vt
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| Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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Problem has been resolved. The bearing/spacers were installed correctly (much to my surprise). DarkStar has the right idea, but the interference was being caused by more than just the CV flange.
I bought these trailing arms from an abandoned Baja project (this is a woods rail project). The arms have been boxed and the PO had welded on these 3rd party triple shock absorber mounts (in the middle picture below, you can kind of see how the mount hooks around the housing).
The shock mounts were welded a little close to the axle housing. With the axle in place, the CV's flange would catch on certain parts of the shock mount.
I ended up popping the flange completely off the axle, cleaned it up, straightened it out (the metal is pretty soft and the edge of the flange was slightly deformed in places) and reinstalled.
I used a Dremel to shave off some of the metal from the shock mount that was a little too close to the bearing housing for comfort. Took three or four trial fittings, but I finally got the axle seated all the way in and can spin it by hand without anything catching.
I noticed the other trailing arm suffers from the same shoddy installation and I've fixed that arm using the same solution.
Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. It is great having that kind of support. |
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Dark Earth
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2015
Posts: 1054
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| Red5 wrote: |
| DarkStar has the right idea, but the interference was being caused by more than just the CV flange. |
May "The Schwartz" be with you 
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1065
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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Thanks for posting the resolution....
Good going!
Jim
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69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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kheberling
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2013
Posts: 26
Location: Bethel, PA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| I am currently doing a groundup rebuild on a '71 frame with discs all around. I recently replaced inner and outer bearings on the IRS. As far as I can tell from the manual and forums all bearings were installed correctly. However, I am getting a slight amount of play in the splined shaft, not in and out, but side to side, top to bottom. In looking at the outer bearing I can see the inner race moving side to side etc. against the rollers. It does not change even after I torque down the disc castle nut, it still has play. Is this play normal? Did I get a bad set of bearings from JBugs? Any advice would be appreciated. |
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Blue69Baja
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Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1065
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:35 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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| kheberling wrote: |
| I am currently doing a groundup rebuild on a '71 frame with discs all around. I recently replaced inner and outer bearings on the IRS. As far as I can tell from the manual and forums all bearings were installed correctly. However, I am getting a slight amount of play in the splined shaft, not in and out, but side to side, top to bottom. In looking at the outer bearing I can see the inner race moving side to side etc. against the rollers. It does not change even after I torque down the disc castle nut, it still has play. Is this play normal? Did I get a bad set of bearings from JBugs? Any advice would be appreciated. |
There should be no slop on that outer bearing up down, left right even without full disassembly. Are you seeing it from the race on the axle or the roller bearings?
If you take it out and can move that inner race to simulate the movement you are seeing the bearing is defective.
You can locally purchase that bearing from nearly any auto parts... Get a good mfg.
As a reminder, the Ball bearing goes to the inside/trans side. The roller bearing goes to the outside!
Jim
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69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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Blue69Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1065
Location: Fair Oaks
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:08 am Post subject: Re: IRS stub axle end play? |
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Any input?????
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69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original.. |
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