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The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

OK, I Just got it out, but it I think it has to be turned left to release it, and right to install it. Anyhow I got it out. The sock filter looks in good shape. It's solid and clean. Holding it up to light shows free of any debris, and blowing in the tube is free, and no debris. So I think it's OK. Is there a cleaning suggestion for the filter even thought it looks good. Bob
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
OK, I Just got it out, but it I think it has to be turned left to release it, and right to install it. Anyhow I got it out. The sock filter looks in good shape. It's solid and clean. Holding it up to light shows free of any debris, and blowing in the tube is free, and no debris. So I think it's OK. Is there a cleaning suggestion for the filter even thought it looks good. Bob



No...but trust me...get rid of it. Just think about it. Rust flakes, sand in the tank...anything...and you are on the side of the road draining ALL of your fuel. Its just a strainer to keep larger sand out of the fuel filter.

Something like this is just fine and can be replaced outside of the tank. They are cheap.
http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_...37447a97b2

http://www.amazon.com/Beck-Arnley-043-0645-Fuel-Fi...J44768X689 same filter

Also perfect

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercedes-Diesel-Inline-Fuel-Filter-001-477-79-01-MANN-WK31-5-/271295248439
You dont want it very fine...100-200 microns is all it needs.

These are even good...1 gallon per minute...50 micron..available at NAPA
http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/PartDetails.aspx?Part=1658501

50 micron is as low as I would go.

Actually just saw this on that site...this would be great to have

http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/index.php?main_...cts_id=586

Take a look at the tank opening compared to the rib on the tube mounting plate.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


See the two slots....the plate should slide right end...now...once the sealing plate is out of the threaded recess...you may have to shift it left or right to get the bend in the tubes into the tank...but the assembly to my knowledge does not "cam" in.

Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

OK, I think I got your point. A filter inside the tank is a potential problem---outside the tank is much, much easier to maintain. Where do you suggest this filter be installed? Just outside of the inlet tube?


I'm assuming the usual in line fuel filter is still needed.

The gasket looked pretty good, but has some real fine cracks on the inside surface. You suggested earlier to coat it with a thin coat of RTV. Please excuse my ignorance, but what is RTV? Bob
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
OK, I think I got your point. A filter inside the tank is a potential problem---outside the tank is much, much easier to maintain. Where do you suggest this filter be installed? Just outside of the inlet tube?


I'm assuming the usual in line fuel filter is still needed.

The gasket looked pretty good, but has some real fine cracks on the inside surface. You suggested earlier to coat it with a thin coat of RTV. Please excuse my ignorance, but what is RTV? Bob


Yep...just outside the tqnk is fine...between tank and the main fuel filter.

Oh...RTV stands for Room temperqture vulcanizing....the slang/official name for silicone sealant.

Also....looking in my book of notes....dont use silicone. Sorry....my bad.

Use a thin coat of Inidian head gasket sealer. Coat one side. It fills the cracks. Let it dry until you can pick it up. Do the other side. Let it dry all the way.

Then apply a thin coat to the inside.....place it in the hole and position it. Then with a q-tip pu5 a very thin coat on the outward facing side....insert the tube assembly. ...then tighten the nut. Let it sit for a few hours before adding gas. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

On my previous post I meant to say install the filter on the outlet tube not the inlet tube.
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

OK Ray I just saw you previous explanation of RTV. But, my seal is a rubber seal not a fiber/paper seal. Also in the parts list it describes it as a rubber seal. I don't mean to argue the point, I was just wondering if the rubber seal was another bad part. My seal as I said before seems to be in pretty good shape, except on the side next to the steel plate it has some very small cracks. The seal came out attached tightly to the steel plate. The side that seals against the tank is in good shape. So now I'm considering pros and cons of re-using the gasket, unless I could find some type of replacement as you mentioned before. Bob
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
OK Ray I just saw you previous explanation of RTV. But, my seal is a rubber seal not a fiber/paper seal. Also in the parts list it describes it as a rubber seal. I don't mean to argue the point, I was just wondering if the rubber seal was another bad part. My seal as I said before seems to be in pretty good shape, except on the side next to the steel plate it has some very small cracks. The seal came out attached tightly to the steel plate. The side that seals against the tank is in good shape. So now I'm considering pros and cons of re-using the gasket, unless I could find some type of replacement as you mentioned before. Bob


They can be both rubber or fiber. I think if memory serves some of the dealer seals later came as fiber/paper washers.....like what you would find on an oil filler cap. Harder than rubber but still compressible.

Either is fine. I have seen both. Use the Inidan head gasket sealer. Its much more gasoline proof.....a thinner liquid to be able to spread thin. Your gasket will work just fine. I have only had to replace one when it literally cracked in half. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Have to make a short pigtail to connect power to the pump. Is 12ga wire OK---I got plenty of that. Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Have to make a short pigtail to connect power to the pump. Is 12ga wire OK---I got plenty of that. Bob


That should be fine. Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Well with a little cooperation with the weather I'm getting back to the fuel pump project. I putting the pump in the same mounting bracket as the original pump, and taking the return line straight to the tank, and the outlet line from the tank to the inlet of the pump. Installing two filters between the tank and the inlet side of the pump. I took Ray's advise, and removed the sock filter, and have a re-filter filter in addition to the regular filter.

I have routed the hoses, and the outlet hose from the pump is a long way from the connection to the dampner(line to the regulator). I'm open to suggestions as how to route this hose. I have it routed up and over the hoses to the tank, and down to the pump. I went this way to prevent any contact with the steering parts, and tight bends. I do have a tight bend in the tank outlet hose to the pump.

Also one other problem, the bottom vibration isolator came apart on the end connecting to the pump strap. So a new one is needed. Any suggestions as to the best source for one of these. I see them on the internet, and even on ebay for $1.75 with free shipping from Hong Cong(can you believe that?). Since I'm in no hurry that seems to be the way to go for this part. The reason I think this part came loose(the metal part separated from the rubber) is because the pump had a seeping type leek, that was undetectable unless you happen to be under the car for some reason and saw it. This leek kept that part wet all the time, and I guess solved the adhesive that held the metal to the rubber. Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Ooops I forgot to mention in my previous post----I'm installing the Aztec E2000 2 port pump. Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

You can buy the isolators at mcmaster carr....some on the flaps help aisle and even a few at Ace Hardware that have good selections.

Mcmaster carr has them. Called vibration damling sandwich mounts. They come with stubs on both ends or with female on both ends or mixed. They have several sizes and diameters. ..in natural rubber and neoprene and with stainless mounts or steel.

A basic steel with neoprene, 6mm studs both ends, 5/8 long center rubber section.....is part # 922K52 and are $1.76 each.

Measure yours. They have several size options.

Would flilling the pump around get the outlet closer to the damper? Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Yes it would, and I have been considering that. But then one has to consider the space for the two filters and hose on the other end. Many of you have installed this pump, an I'm sure there's a way. Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Yes it would, and I have been considering that. But then one has to consider the space for the two filters and hose on the other end. Many of you have installed this pump, an I'm sure there's a way. Bob


So....what main filter are you using and where is it mounted? Is it in the original filter bracket?

It should not be that big of a fit issue. Your pump may need a 90° at either end.

Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Yes I'm using the existing filter bracket, and all is working fine. The hose from the tank outlet has to make a 180 degree turn to accommodate the filter. I did use two 90 degree connections to keep from tight bend in the hose. The return hose connection is straight. The pump outlet hose has to make a 180 degree to get back to the line to the regulator. I did put a 90 degree connection on the pump to accommodate that. I still have a couple of issues yet. One is I'm waiting on a new Vibration Isolator on order, and since the new pump is less diameter than the original the bracket is too big in diameter, so I'm attaching a filler to the bracket to make up the difference. Everything seems to be coming together nicely.

Question: Is there a wrench similar to a brake line wrench that will fit the large connection to the tank while the hoses are still connected? Also what is the size of the connection. In taking everything apart I used a std wrench socked which wasn't an exact fit but did work without damage, but I don't like to do that.

I took your advise, and clipped out the sock filter. I installed an external pre-filter in line before the regular filter. Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:

Question: Is there a wrench similar to a brake line wrench that will fit the large connection to the tank while the hoses are still connected? Also what is the size of the connection. In taking everything apart I used a std wrench socked which wasn't an exact fit but did work without damage, but I don't like to do that.

Bob


Bob, I measured the nut to 41mm which should be 1" 5/8 and there should be plumbing wrenches similar to the one below available .

/Lars S

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Thanks LarsS. Glad to know the size. I just never thought of these wrenches being this big. I removed that fitting while doing a complete going over of my fuel pump installation and system. Then of course I realized I couldn't get a socket wrench on it with the hoses connected. I put gas in the tank and tested for leeks, but it is comforting to know a way to tighten this connection if a leek should occur. Thanks again, Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Nice! Thanks for this information. Too far away from mine to check. Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

Well It's been sometime now since I installed the two port E2000 pump. I took your advice, and removed the sock filter, and replaced it with another filter outside the tank in addition to the regular filter. But I didn't do the Y thing. Perhaps I should have, and will probably go back and do it. When driving on a highway and gaining highway speed, I notice a drag like pulling a trailer or a brake binding when getting up to around 45 to 50 mph. I don't see a problem with the brakes, so I'm wondering if the engine isn't getting enough fuel. Perhaps maybe a reason the Y connection is needed, or the fuel pump just isn't doing the job. The engine revs up good while sitting, and in neutral, but I get the feeling on a high rev holding, there may be a slight drag, but so slight it's hard to detect sometimes.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: The Fuel Pump Problem, looking for complete solution Reply with quote

So, after being defeated by the 412 wiring for the day, I tried to divert my attention to the fuel pump. I have a non-op fuel pump that I completely took apart. The armature was totally gummed up and I cleaned it really well, put some motor lube on and now it's running:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


(that's it spinning!)

Now, I have these parts (all gummed up of course):

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


My question is, after I clean all of these parts.. how do I lubricate it? What should I use?

Knowing that it pumps fuel, I'm guessing I need some type of lubrication that the fuel doesn't cut away.

Any feedback would be appreciated. Fortunately, all the gaskets look like they are in excellent condition.

If I can get this working -- I now know how to rebuild these things. (Well... at least the motor part)

THe armature was totally seized in 'gum'.

Thanks!
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