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Booky Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013 Posts: 149 Location: Pa
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:42 pm Post subject: Brakes make no sense |
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Trying to figure out what is going on with my brakes.They are five wide drum brakes.When the vehicle is setting still brakes fill good nice hard pedal start down the road applie the brakes they are mushy.Pull it back in the garage play with the star adjusters get nice drag on the wheel nice pedal go back out on the road it’s mushy.Have bleed them a number of times no air.
HELP |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Your brake booster is leaking
That is a strange problem. Nothing should change, moving or not with manual brakes..
Is the emergency/parking brake applied when you're parked, and have a good pedal? |
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Howard 111 Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 1827 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Pruneman99 wrote: |
Is the emergency/parking brake applied when you're parked, and have a good pedal? |
That's what I was ready to ask. _________________ 1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270 |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Do you know what year the brake set up is ? > 65 up had angled adjusting screws and maybe yours are installed wrong giving you a false impression they are tight?
_________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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60ragtop wrote: |
Do you know what year the brake set up is ? > 65 up had angled adjusting screws and maybe yours are installed wrong giving you a false impression they are tight?
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You can't get the drum on if the angle is backwards. Ask me how I know |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Lot's of misinformed owners have gotten the drum back on with backward adjusters. Ask me, I know after 50 years you still see stuff _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Booky Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013 Posts: 149 Location: Pa
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Not sure what year and no the emergency brake was not applied. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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The same is true of the backing plates.
backing plates from early cars that used the narrow slot adjuster AND cylinders, they NEED the narrow slot to locate the shoes, as the backing plates do not have the support pads that later models do.
Since new wheel cylinders are not available with the narrow slots, what I do is put a small mig weld on each side of the shoe where it goes in the slot, and make the shoe fit the wide slot.
The last one or two years of link pin bugs, the backing plates did have the support areas, but those aren't easy to find. |
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Booky Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013 Posts: 149 Location: Pa
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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I will add this all drums went on easy did not have to force them. |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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60ragtop wrote: |
Lot's of misinformed owners have gotten the drum back on with backward adjusters. Ask me, I know after 50 years you still see stuff |
Actually, I don't doubt this at all. Many PO's have "made stuff fit" on cars I've bought. Sometimes amazingly so.
OP:
Huh. IDK then. You got me stumped to. Moving or not they should be the same.
Are these new brake pads? Could the pads just be centering themselves? It will take a few stops to help get the pads to center themselves. Star adjustments might be required if they move a lot. |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Any play in the wheel bearings?
Drums out of round? |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Pruneman99 wrote: |
60ragtop wrote: |
Do you know what year the brake set up is ? > 65 up had angled adjusting screws and maybe yours are installed wrong giving you a false impression they are tight?
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You can't get the drum on if the angle is backwards. Ask me how I know |
Yes you can.....
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9880 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Booky wrote: |
Trying to figure out what is going on with my brakes.They are five wide drum brakes.When the vehicle is setting still brakes fill good nice hard pedal start down the road applie the brakes they are mushy.Pull it back in the garage play with the star adjusters get nice drag on the wheel nice pedal go back out on the road it’s mushy.Have bleed them a number of times no air.
HELP |
Help me, so that I can help you.
How old is the master cylinder?
How old are the wheel cylinders?
How old are the rubber brake hoses? _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2714 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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When its stopped do you have the E-brake on ?
If so you are mostly pumping brake fluid to the front brakes with the pedal. So it feels firm.
When you release the E-brake the rear brakes have to travel as well so the amount you move the pedal has to increase as the volume of fluid you need to get the same pressure increases.
Make sure you free off the E-brake adjustment before adjusting the rear brakes, then do the E-brake adjustment.
You can tell if this is the problem by checking the feel of brakes with and without E-brake applied. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:47 pm Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Dale M. wrote: |
Pruneman99 wrote: |
60ragtop wrote: |
Do you know what year the brake set up is ? > 65 up had angled adjusting screws and maybe yours are installed wrong giving you a false impression they are tight?
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You can't get the drum on if the angle is backwards. Ask me how I know |
Yes you can.....
Dale |
Well the drum sure didn't fit when I accidentally set the slots up the wrong way a few months ago when redoing my rears. |
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wahlers Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2008 Posts: 21 Location: Flanders, NJ
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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If it were me, I’d focus on the master cylinder. My car had the same symptoms last year. Brakes felt good at a stop but sometimes after driving a while I’d apply the brakes and I’d have to pump them to get good pedal feel.
One day cruising along, came to an intersection, applied brakes and nothing! Luckily nobody was going the other way.
Turns out the master was bad. Replaced master and fluid and bled the lines and haven’t had a problem since.
If everything else is adjusted properly I’d start there. If it
Pulls one way or the other, I’d focus on the wheel cylinders. If it’s just a general softness, start at the master. Good luck! |
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Booky Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013 Posts: 149 Location: Pa
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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Everything is brand new all the brake components are brand new.If just move the car out of the garage the brakes are mushy to come to a stop.If the screw in the star adjuster is back wards which way should it go? |
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Booky Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2013 Posts: 149 Location: Pa
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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E brake is not on I have it loss at the e brake handle. |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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like this
If you don't know what year it is, how did you order the parts
post a pic with the drum off. _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4848 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense |
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What is the diameter of the drums? If the drums have been machined the arch in the shoe will not match the drums and flex as you apply them untill they wear to the same arch of the drum. Back in the day, you used to bring your new brake shoes with the drums so the shoes could be re-arched to match the drums. They no longer do this as the sanding of the shoes blew asbestos everywhere. _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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