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Brakes make no sense
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Booky
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Trying to figure out what is going on with my brakes.They are five wide drum brakes.When the vehicle is setting still brakes fill good nice hard pedal start down the road applie the brakes they are mushy.Pull it back in the garage play with the star adjusters get nice drag on the wheel nice pedal go back out on the road itís mushy.Have bleed them a number of times no air.

HELP
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Your brake booster is leaking Laughing

That is a strange problem. Nothing should change, moving or not with manual brakes..

Is the emergency/parking brake applied when you're parked, and have a good pedal?
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Howard 111
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Pruneman99 wrote:
Is the emergency/parking brake applied when you're parked, and have a good pedal?


That's what I was ready to ask.
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60ragtop Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Do you know what year the brake set up is ? > 65 up had angled adjusting screws and maybe yours are installed wrong giving you a false impression they are tight?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Sharp64 wrote:
But thatís crazy talk. He must be made to comply!!!


" Even when all the experts agree they may well be mistaken." Bertrand Russell
[email protected] wrote:
aftermarket shit that always needs a tweek eats time

Eaallred wrote:
People are over analyzing.......(insert your problem here)
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

60ragtop wrote:
Do you know what year the brake set up is ? > 65 up had angled adjusting screws and maybe yours are installed wrong giving you a false impression they are tight?

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You can't get the drum on if the angle is backwards. Ask me how I know Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Lot's of misinformed owners have gotten the drum back on with backward adjusters. Ask me, I know Wink after 50 years you still see stuff Laughing
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Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
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Sharp64 wrote:
But thatís crazy talk. He must be made to comply!!!


" Even when all the experts agree they may well be mistaken." Bertrand Russell
[email protected] wrote:
aftermarket shit that always needs a tweek eats time

Eaallred wrote:
People are over analyzing.......(insert your problem here)
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Booky
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Not sure what year and no the emergency brake was not applied.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

The same is true of the backing plates.
backing plates from early cars that used the narrow slot adjuster AND cylinders, they NEED the narrow slot to locate the shoes, as the backing plates do not have the support pads that later models do.

Since new wheel cylinders are not available with the narrow slots, what I do is put a small mig weld on each side of the shoe where it goes in the slot, and make the shoe fit the wide slot.

The last one or two years of link pin bugs, the backing plates did have the support areas, but those aren't easy to find.
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Booky
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

I will add this all drums went on easy did not have to force them.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

60ragtop wrote:
Lot's of misinformed owners have gotten the drum back on with backward adjusters. Ask me, I know Wink after 50 years you still see stuff Laughing


Actually, I don't doubt this at all. Many PO's have "made stuff fit" on cars I've bought. Sometimes amazingly so.

OP:

Huh. IDK then. You got me stumped to. Moving or not they should be the same.

Are these new brake pads? Could the pads just be centering themselves? It will take a few stops to help get the pads to center themselves. Star adjustments might be required if they move a lot.
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FreeBug
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Any play in the wheel bearings?

Drums out of round?
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Pruneman99 wrote:
60ragtop wrote:
Do you know what year the brake set up is ? > 65 up had angled adjusting screws and maybe yours are installed wrong giving you a false impression they are tight?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You can't get the drum on if the angle is backwards. Ask me how I know Embarassed


Yes you can.....

Dale
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VW_Jimbo
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Booky wrote:
Trying to figure out what is going on with my brakes.They are five wide drum brakes.When the vehicle is setting still brakes fill good nice hard pedal start down the road applie the brakes they are mushy.Pull it back in the garage play with the star adjusters get nice drag on the wheel nice pedal go back out on the road itís mushy.Have bleed them a number of times no air.

HELP


Help me, so that I can help you.

How old is the master cylinder?

How old are the wheel cylinders?

How old are the rubber brake hoses?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

When its stopped do you have the E-brake on ?
If so you are mostly pumping brake fluid to the front brakes with the pedal. So it feels firm.
When you release the E-brake the rear brakes have to travel as well so the amount you move the pedal has to increase as the volume of fluid you need to get the same pressure increases.

Make sure you free off the E-brake adjustment before adjusting the rear brakes, then do the E-brake adjustment.

You can tell if this is the problem by checking the feel of brakes with and without E-brake applied.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Dale M. wrote:
Pruneman99 wrote:
60ragtop wrote:
Do you know what year the brake set up is ? > 65 up had angled adjusting screws and maybe yours are installed wrong giving you a false impression they are tight?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You can't get the drum on if the angle is backwards. Ask me how I know Embarassed


Yes you can.....

Dale


Well the drum sure didn't fit when I accidentally set the slots up the wrong way a few months ago when redoing my rears.
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wahlers
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

If it were me, Iíd focus on the master cylinder. My car had the same symptoms last year. Brakes felt good at a stop but sometimes after driving a while Iíd apply the brakes and Iíd have to pump them to get good pedal feel.
One day cruising along, came to an intersection, applied brakes and nothing! Luckily nobody was going the other way.
Turns out the master was bad. Replaced master and fluid and bled the lines and havenít had a problem since.
If everything else is adjusted properly Iíd start there. If it
Pulls one way or the other, Iíd focus on the wheel cylinders. If itís just a general softness, start at the master. Good luck!
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Booky
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

Everything is brand new all the brake components are brand new.If just move the car out of the garage the brakes are mushy to come to a stop.If the screw in the star adjuster is back wards which way should it go?
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Booky
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

E brake is not on I have it loss at the e brake handle.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

like this

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If you don't know what year it is, how did you order the parts Question

post a pic with the drum off.
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Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
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Sharp64 wrote:
But thatís crazy talk. He must be made to comply!!!


" Even when all the experts agree they may well be mistaken." Bertrand Russell
[email protected] wrote:
aftermarket shit that always needs a tweek eats time

Eaallred wrote:
People are over analyzing.......(insert your problem here)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: Brakes make no sense Reply with quote

What is the diameter of the drums? If the drums have been machined the arch in the shoe will not match the drums and flex as you apply them untill they wear to the same arch of the drum. Back in the day, you used to bring your new brake shoes with the drums so the shoes could be re-arched to match the drums. They no longer do this as the sanding of the shoes blew asbestos everywhere.
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