Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ledogboy Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 19, 2005
Posts: 578
Location: Scappoose, OR / Oakland, CA
ledogboy is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

E1 wrote:
Waldi wrote:
There are no pros for bigger tires on a stock engine/gearbox

If ignoring far better handling, stability in all directions, increased ride height, ability to run bigger brakes, bridging low spots on dirt, ability to carry more speed on road transition angles, wider choice in tires, ability to run lower pressures on sand and snow, resistance to debeading in extreme maneuvers, sidewall strength, and wheel strength against jolts and impacts, I fully concur.


He said tires, not wheels...
_________________
1986 Westy Weekender
Now a full camper
1.8t Syncro conversion
Some people call him Maurice...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
E1
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6530
Location: Westfalia, Earth
E1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

I'll let Waldi reply, but only two of my eleven points were about wheels...
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

— Colin Chapman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
erdonline
Samba Member


Joined: September 26, 2004
Posts: 943
Location: CT
erdonline is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

tencentlife wrote:

The stock 185 tires don't usually print the aspect ratio but diameter is usually about 24.5"

27.3 / 24.5 = 1.114, or an 11.4% increase in dia.

To get that down, choose a lower aspect ratio like 60 or 65, then do the math.

You can apply a percentage across the board, so your rpms will change by the same amount in any particular gear with a standard trans.

Go to town.


One correction – the aspect ratio of the stock 185's is usually considered to be about 82%. That gives an overall diameter of 25.94 inches.

Ed
_________________
'85 Vanagon Westfalia
'84 Vanagon 7-passenger
'98 Mexican air-cooled Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
alanmacleod2
Samba Member


Joined: July 09, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
alanmacleod2 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Those rev/mile numbers are pretty far off. Don't use those for your calculations.

Look up what Nokian gives for their tires in those sizes.

215/65-16 _ 770 rev/mile
205/65-16 _ 785 rev/mile
225/60-16 _ 780 rev/mile


For comparison with the 2 stock 14" size,
185R14C about 810 rev/mile
205/70R14 about 820 rev/mile

I've been running oversize tires on my Vanagons for 30 years.
I find that 750 rev/mile is the upper limit before the loss of power is too great for me. I prefer slightly less loss, and now run 770 rev/mile. I'm talking about stock power level vans, or close to it.

Mark


Mark,

I don't completely understand the Nokian website data sheet.

Based on their data, the WRC3 205/65 R16 has an overall diameter of 26.5" with 785 Revolutions/Mile ???

2 x 3.14 x 13.25 (26.5 / 2) = 83" circumference

5,280 ft / mile x 12 = 63,360 in / mile

63,360 / 83 inches = 763 revolutions/mile

Some of their other calculations are throwing me off also.

What am I doing wrong here??

Alan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
IdahoDoug
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
IdahoDoug is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

For a street car with 95 hp designed with 185 r14, or 195 tires there is no overall benefit to handling or performances attributable to larger tires. In fact, a lot of degradation to handlng and performance happens along with reduced acceleration power and braking power, more fuel use, etc when you add larger/wider tires. I remain with my contention that I could easily outrun a matching Vanagon to mine on a track or any road race if the only difference was you put larger tires on yours. Easy, and I'd bet my title against yours.
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader


Last edited by IdahoDoug on Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
E1
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6530
Location: Westfalia, Earth
E1 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

I only have 82 hp, so, decline. Laughing Laughing Laughing
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

— Colin Chapman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
IdahoDoug
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
IdahoDoug is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

Yeah, the supposed benefits of larger and wider tires are simply not there for a low powered vehicle like the Vanagon. In fact they're not really there for an ordinary modern vehicle, either.

Here are just a few negatives off the top of my head you should know of for larger/wider tires that degrade performance vs stock tires:

• Increased unsprung weight.
• Altered tire spring/bounce rate vs factory springs chosen for original tire size.
• Lessened ability to put power to road due to loss of leverage from larger diameter.
• Greater tire rolling resistance and air resistance.
• Greater air resistance as vehicle is taller cruising down the road.
• Higher roll center and center of gravity.
• More strain on all drivetrain components.
• Less tire-contributed stability against road irregularities and wind input.

If you'd like to discuss these in depth, I'd be interested in carrying to a new thread specifically about impacts of larger tires on performance, but it's simply not a supportable statement to say "My 95hp Vanagon performs better on larger tires."

Doug
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DometicLover
Samba Member


Joined: August 06, 2013
Posts: 70
Location: Montrιal
DometicLover is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

alanmacleod2 wrote:


Mark,

I don't completely understand the Nokian website data sheet.

Based on their data, the WRC3 205/65 R16 has an overall diameter of 26.5" with 785 Revolutions/Mile ???

2 x 3.14 x 13.25 (26.5 / 2) = 83" circumference

5,280 ft / mile x 12 = 63,360 in / mile

63,360 / 83 inches = 763 revolutions/mile

Some of their other calculations are throwing me off also.

What am I doing wrong here??

Alan


Probably this. Outside radius is different than the contact radius. So at every turn the rubber accelerate and decelerate as it come in and out of the contact patch. I learned the hard way during my university years that tire behavior are very difficult to theorize...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



But from my personal experience; 215/65R16 Nokia Rotiiva AT were great tire/size combo with minimal power loss on the WBX. I'm currently running BFG AT 235/75R15 with noticeable power loss but still acceptable for me. The good thing is that I'm now at 3100RPM @ 100kph which is noticeably quieter than the 3800RPMish (I think??) of the original tire. Most of my driving is flat anyway...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9798
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

IdahoDoug wrote:
Yere are just a few negatives off the top of my head you should know of for larger/wider tires...


Plus they will make your brakes less effective.

Stock brakes are adequate but not exceptional. Reducing their effectiveness seems dicey.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
E1
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6530
Location: Westfalia, Earth
E1 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

I'm putting 35" tires on for my race with Doug.

I really hate to see grown men cry. Laughing
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

— Colin Chapman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
crazyvwvanman
Samba Member


Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 9923
Location: Orbiting San Diego
crazyvwvanman is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

Agreed, that 215/65R16 size works well and has become my favorite due to the large number of tires available in that size with an XL rating. Plus I insist on 5 matching tires on my fleet and it also is an easier fit into the front spare area than the slightly larger tires I used to mostly run.

Mark


DometicLover wrote:
.....But from my personal experience; 215/65R16 Nokia Rotiiva AT were great tire/size combo with minimal power loss on the WBX. ....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tjet Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
tjet is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

edited

Last edited by tjet on Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
IdahoDoug
Samba Member


Joined: June 12, 2010
Posts: 10248
Location: N. Idaho
IdahoDoug is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

Well, I may be Mr. Safety but that is one kick ass Syncro and my first reaction was a low "sweeeeeeeeeet!" under my breath. That's really high - I also remember getting a kick out of my head in my stock Syncro being higher than almost all stock SUVs and many with lifts. It's a small but meaningful thing!

Doug
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tjet Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
tjet is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

edited

Last edited by tjet on Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

I just want to drive around with an oil drum chained to the top. Twisted Evil
_________________
Abscate wrote:
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
E1
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6530
Location: Westfalia, Earth
E1 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

Busdigger Monster Bus, gotta have.

Sweet ride, tjet, enjoy that bad boy.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

— Colin Chapman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tjet Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 10, 2014
Posts: 3533
Location: CA & NM
tjet is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

edited

Last edited by tjet on Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
E1
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6530
Location: Westfalia, Earth
E1 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

Tjet, Ibex Dunes?

Been to the Park over fifty times. Seriously. Pitching another book about it soon, our favorite place on earth.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

— Colin Chapman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
lucianosanchez
Samba Member


Joined: May 04, 2016
Posts: 212
Location: Ventura County
lucianosanchez is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

It sure did. On that note, I want bigger tires Laughing Some KO2's would be nice
_________________
1983.5 Aussan Brown Westfalia | 2016 to 2020
1983.5 Beige Westfalia | 2019 to Current
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member


Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
Zeitgeist 13 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Increased Wheel Diameter w/ Stock 2.1L Engine Reply with quote

I'm running 215/70-16 up front and 225/70-16 in the rear--staggered rims.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?


Last edited by Zeitgeist 13 on Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.